[21:00:02] <@mgorny> !proj council
[21:00:03] <willikins> (council@gentoo.org) arthurzam, dilfridge, mgorny, robbat2, sam, soap, ulm
[21:00:08] <@mgorny> 1. Roll call!
[21:00:11] -*- arthurzam here
[21:00:17] <@robbat2> present
[21:00:26] -*- mgorny here
[21:02:31] -*- robbat2 listens to the crickets
[21:02:48] <@mgorny> err, we'd use at least sam and ulm for the eapi 9 item
[21:03:09] <@arthurzam> I think we need at least 1 more to be able to even have council meeting
[21:03:12] <@robbat2> mgorny: you're the chair today, and we don't have quorum :-(
[21:03:22] <@arthurzam> agenda link: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/9f9878a2113c494a30c8797643c67071b3b074c6.camel@gentoo.org/
[21:03:44] <@arthurzam> sam_: ulm: dilfridge: soap: ping
[21:03:51] <@robbat2> dilfridge|mobile: ping
[21:04:10] <@mgorny> > If any meeting has less than 50% attendance by Council members, a new election for all places must be held within a month.
[21:04:15] <@mgorny> well, kinda works
[21:04:47] <@robbat2> give them until 19:10 UTC and then call it?
[21:05:07] <@arthurzam> was there timezone DST change recently?
[21:05:08] <+ztrawhcse> I was going to ask, was the plan that it's the last meeting anyway...
[21:05:42] <@robbat2> iirc slacker marks still apply
[21:05:46] <@mgorny> is anyone able to call them?
[21:06:17] <@mgorny> robbat2: i don't think so
[21:06:27] <@mgorny> "If any meeting has less than 50% attendance by council members, a new election for all places must be held within a month. The 'one year' is then reset from that point."
[21:06:46] <@mgorny> sorry, "The 'slacker' marker is reset when a member is elected."
[21:06:47] <@mgorny> this one 
[21:06:56] <@robbat2> ah; missed that line
[21:07:08] <@mgorny> kinda ironic
[21:07:13] <@robbat2> you're the only EU person here to cheaply SMS them
[21:07:32] <@arthurzam> I think sam's contact info was in infrawiki, but can't find that page now
[21:07:47] <@mgorny> yeah, i'm trying to find it
[21:08:15] <@robbat2> no; he isn't on the page there
[21:08:49] <@mgorny> it's funny because the only council contacts there are the three of us
[21:09:16] <+ztrawhcse> I tried calling sam_ on signal, he's not picking up
[21:10:05] <+ztrawhcse> hold on. he replied
[21:10:59] <+ztrawhcse> he's coming
[21:11:05] <@mgorny> okay
[21:12:02] -*- sam_ here
[21:12:07] <@sam_> sorry
[21:12:21] <@arthurzam> We have 50% \o/
[21:12:32] <@mgorny> okay
[21:12:40] <@mgorny> 2. EAPI=9 changes [2]
[21:12:59] <@mgorny> [2] https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/ucybwd2kw@gentoo.org/
[21:13:13] <@mgorny> do you think we can do this without ulm or should we postpone?
[21:13:43] <@arthurzam> considering ulm sent this message, I think he was mostly pro those changes
[21:14:06] <@mgorny> a. Sam has submitted another feature: use.stable and package.use.stable
[21:14:06] <@mgorny> files in profiles [1].
[21:14:13] <@mgorny> please see the linked mail for full wording
[21:14:26] <@arthurzam> https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/ucybwd2kw@gentoo.org/
[21:14:26] <@arthurzam> bug 955833
[21:14:26] <@mgorny> sam_: want to say anything/
[21:14:27] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/955833 "Introduce package.use.stable, use.stable for profiles"; Gentoo Hosted Projects, PMS/EAPI; IN_P; sam:pms
[21:14:41] <@sam_> yeah, let me write something 
[21:16:02] <@sam_> so, the motivation for this is that profile changes are kind of a missing gap in our coverage for stable vs testing -- we don't have a way of phasing in profile changes that involve USE, and when we do make big changes, we often end up finding things that ~arch users would've picked up first without subjecting them to stable users
[21:16:18] <@sam_> it would've been useful with the Plasma 6 transition and my hope is it'll be useful for python/ruby as well
[21:16:35] <@sam_> it also feels natural given we have p.use.stable.mask/p.use.stable.force already
[21:16:46] -*- ulm here
[21:16:53] <@sam_> (you can force or disable something for stable, but you can't just enable it, there's no symmetry)
[21:16:55] <@arthurzam> One question from me: does using it require profile/eapi be =9, or based on ebuild's eapi
[21:17:02] <@ulm> sorry, forgot the time
[21:17:22] <@mgorny> arthurzam: i dare say "same as {package.,}use.stable"
[21:17:23] <@sam_> it needs the profile to be EAPI 9 which is unfortunate and that will mean we need some other discussions about when we crank that up 
[21:17:27] <@sam_> but ^
[21:18:02] <@arthurzam> is it possible to make it dependent on ebuild's EAPI?
[21:18:25] <@arthurzam> because it affects only on the level how the PM default prefer loads the ebuild
[21:18:31] <@ulm> that would be rather unsystematic, and I don't think it's possible in a consistent way
[21:18:33] <@sam_> i'm afraid i'm not aware of any way
[21:18:40] <@arthurzam> ok, ACK
[21:18:44] <@mgorny> wouldn't that be cyclic?
[21:19:16] <@arthurzam> so in summary, unfortunate need to bump profile/eapi in some years to follow
[21:19:25] <@mgorny> i mean, i think it's technically doable but doesn't sound like a good idea
[21:19:43] <@robbat2> question: do we have the interaction for flags across the 4 files documented? p.use.stable.mask/p.use.stable.force/use.stable/p.use.stable
[21:19:57] <@arthurzam> I think there is a section on it
[21:20:22] <@arthurzam> robbat2: Algorithm 5.1
[21:20:23] <@robbat2> we document p.use/use.stable/p.use.stable; but not the force&mask interactions
[21:20:27] <@arthurzam> https://projects.gentoo.org/pms/8/pms.html#x1-54002r1
[21:20:28] <@ulm> I had sent it to the -pms ML
[21:20:33] -*- soap here now
[21:20:36] <@mgorny> well, that's kinda tangential on the approval
[21:20:56] <@arthurzam> > The logic for use.force, use.stable.force, package.use.force, and package.use. stable.force is identical. If a flag is both masked and forced, the mask is considered to take precedence. 
[21:21:34] <@mgorny> okay, let's vote
[21:21:43] <@mgorny> vote: "use.stable and package.use.stable" in EAPI 9
[21:21:46] -*- sam_ yes
[21:21:49] -*- arthurzam yes
[21:21:52] -*- robbat2 aye
[21:21:54] -*- soap yes
[21:21:59] -*- ulm yes
[21:21:59] -*- mgorny yes
[21:22:19] <@robbat2> (brb teenagers at the door)
[21:22:20] <@mgorny> ok, 6 yes, approved unanimously
[21:22:44] <@mgorny> b. There doesn't seem to be any visible progress on the "eclass
[21:22:44] <@mgorny> revisions" feature [2], therefore I'd like to drop it from the list
[21:22:44] <@mgorny> of EAPI 9 features, and either postpone to EAPI 10, or reject it
[21:22:44] <@mgorny> altogether.
[21:22:54] <@mgorny> does anyone want to say anything or should we vote?
[21:23:03] <@arthurzam> no spec, no impl in portage/pkgcore...
[21:23:06] <@sam_> this has come up in a bunch of meetings and we've informally agreed with dilfridge to drop it 
[21:23:09] <@ulm> to we want to drop it altogether, or postpone?
[21:23:17] <@sam_> drop it
[21:23:36] <@mgorny> yeah, postponing won't change anythign
[21:24:00] <@mgorny> vote: drop eclass revisions from EAPI 9
[21:24:03] <@ulm> this one is bug 806592, for reference
[21:24:04] <willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/806592 "[Future EAPI] ECLASS_REVISION and autogenerated ebuild microrevisions"; Gentoo Hosted Projects, PMS/EAPI; RESO, WONT; dilfridge:pms
[21:24:08] -*- arthurzam yes
[21:24:12] -*- sam_ yes
[21:24:13] -*- mgorny yes
[21:24:27] -*- ulm yes
[21:24:30] -*- soap yes
[21:27:41] <@robbat2> (back, one sec to read back)
[21:27:53] -*- robbat2 aye
[21:28:08] <@mgorny> ok, 6 yes, accepted unanimously
[21:28:16] <@mgorny> 3. Open bugs with Council participation [3]
[21:28:21] <@mgorny> [3] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council#Open_bugs_with_Council_participation
[21:28:32] <@mgorny> bug 936211
[21:28:33] <willikins> mgorny: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936211 "[Tracker] Gentoo Foundation dissolution"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; ulm:trustees
[21:28:39] <@mgorny> robbat2: anything new?
[21:28:42] <@robbat2> (sorry for the delay; i had hired 14 year olds that were looking to make money - to have them remove invasive plants in my yard)
[21:29:03] <@robbat2> did SPI update since Friday? one moment
[21:29:54] <@robbat2> seems not - i'm hoping they do post the April & May financials; which I think will show the monthly income to SPI now exceeds our normal monthly expenses, so we can move the expenses over
[21:30:14] <@arthurzam> they have a meeting tomorrow, I suspect it will be uploaded by then?
[21:30:14] <@robbat2> i did file the requested text that SPI needed for their annual report
[21:30:30] <@robbat2> hopefully, that's their target deadline for it
[21:30:56] <@robbat2> for future Council meetings; I actually want to see if we can move the council meeting to be after SPI's meeting each month
[21:31:08] <@mgorny> bug 948684
[21:31:09] <willikins> mgorny: https://bugs.gentoo.org/948684 "Missing summary for 20240609 council meeting"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:dilfridge
[21:31:20] <@mgorny> bug 948686
[21:31:21] <willikins> mgorny: https://bugs.gentoo.org/948686 "Missing summary for 20241110 council meeting"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:dilfridge
[21:31:30] <@mgorny> i guess we can skip them, given dilfridge is absent
[21:31:48] <@arthurzam> I hope those bugs weren't the issue for him being now.
[21:32:01] <@mgorny> which brings us to...
[21:32:02] <@mgorny> 4. Open floor
[21:32:03] <@arthurzam> Do you think I should write the summaries myself to help?
[21:32:22] <@mgorny> arthurzam: i think he was already working on them the last tiem
[21:32:36] <@mgorny> but let's do that async
[21:33:03] <@mgorny> note for the next council: establish better "emergency" contacts
[21:33:27] <+NeddySeagoon> mgorny: That could be you :)
[21:33:50] <@mgorny> yeah, i mean we probably should have a list of contact numbers / something somewhere
[21:33:57] <@ulm> mgorny: good idea. we used to have these
[21:34:00] <@mgorny> like we have for infra
[21:34:51] <@robbat2> foundation has them as well, because they are legally required
[21:35:52] <@mgorny> so... any other items for the open floor?
[21:36:05] <@arthurzam> I want to thank the council memebers for the year
[21:36:19] <@robbat2> request: looking for images of the gentoo logo used in the wild in the last calendar year; in both EU & US
[21:36:29] <@sam_> I'll handle adding myself to infrawiki as well shortly (thought I already had)
[21:36:31] <@robbat2> ideally conferences
[21:36:42] <@robbat2> i need it for the copyright renewal steps
[21:36:58] <@ulm> robbat2: we should have some images from FOSDEM
[21:37:12] <@ulm> ask dilfridge
[21:41:04] <@mgorny> let's wait one more minute...
[21:41:26] <@mgorny> robbat2: i'll ask around if there's anything from PIWO
[21:41:39] <DarthGandalf> if dilfridge doesn't appear, I can upload a photo from fosdem somewhere
[21:42:50] -*- mgorny bangs the gavel
[21:42:53] <@mgorny> thanks, everyone!
[21:42:58] <@sam_> thank you!
[21:43:01] <+NeddySeagoon> Its on badges, the family tree and the table cloth.
[21:43:09] <@arthurzam> thank you for chairing
[21:43:19] <@arthurzam> for me it was the weirdest meeting
[21:43:31] <@ulm> thank you
[21:43:39] <@ulm> and sorry again for being late
[21:43:46] <@sam_> i'm sorry for my late appearance as well
[21:43:47] <@mgorny> yeah, sorry about failing to paste all the links
[21:43:57] <@mgorny> i'm half-asleep
[21:43:58] <@sam_> and thanks ztrawhcse for fetching me
[21:43:58] <@soap> thansk mgorny: