[2025-09-14T19:00:02Z] <@arthurzam> meeting time
[2025-09-14T19:00:02Z] <@arthurzam> !proj council
[2025-09-14T19:00:02Z] <@arthurzam> agenda at https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/72ea309a-d85a-42cb-a7fc-f4372c218dec@gentoo.org/
[2025-09-14T19:00:15Z] <@arthurzam> 1. roll call
[2025-09-14T19:00:15Z] <willikins> (council@gentoo.org) arthurzam, dilfridge, mgorny, robbat2, sam, soap, ulm
[2025-09-14T19:00:18Z] -*- sam_ here
[2025-09-14T19:00:25Z] -*- robbat2 present
[2025-09-14T19:00:29Z] -*- arthurzam here
[2025-09-14T19:00:31Z] -*- mgorny here
[2025-09-14T19:00:42Z] -*- dilfridge|mobile here
[2025-09-14T19:01:46Z] -*- ulm here
[2025-09-14T19:02:27Z] <@arthurzam> Sent ping to soap over signal
[2025-09-14T19:02:52Z] <@mgorny> it's rainy, so he may have dissolved
[2025-09-14T19:02:54Z] -*- mgorny hides
[2025-09-14T19:03:17Z] <@arthurzam> let's wait for 2 more minutes
[2025-09-14T19:03:40Z] <@dilfridge|mobile> someone put him in the dishwasher
[2025-09-14T19:04:42Z] <@dilfridge|mobile> (you wouldn't guess how many people try to clean salt crystal lamps in the dishwasher)
[2025-09-14T19:05:17Z] <@arthurzam> ok timeout of 2 minutes, let's hope he joins us
[2025-09-14T19:05:27Z] <@arthurzam> 2. Open bugs with Council participation
[2025-09-14T19:05:27Z] <@arthurzam> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council#Open_bugs_with_Council_participation
[2025-09-14T19:05:39Z] <@arthurzam> So let's start with the tracker of bug 961301
[2025-09-14T19:05:40Z] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/961301 "[Tracker] Requests for metadata/AUTHORS"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:council
[2025-09-14T19:05:46Z] <@arthurzam> bug 730200 for robbat2
[2025-09-14T19:05:46Z] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/730200 "metadata/AUTHORS: inclusion of myself and prior employers that may own copyright"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; robbat2:council
[2025-09-14T19:06:00Z] <@robbat2> ulm: ^^ i had answered you previously on it; and didn't hear anything back
[2025-09-14T19:06:20Z] <@arthurzam> ulm: I think robbat2gave what was requested from him. Should we just vote or just accept it?
[2025-09-14T19:06:33Z] <@arthurzam> (not sure how those types of requests should we handled in council)
[2025-09-14T19:07:07Z] <@ulm> robbat2: if you can say with a straight face that these commits are fine and copyrighted by their respective entities, then it's fine with me
[2025-09-14T19:07:36Z] <@robbat2> and that my employment contracts at the time permitted me to open source the work yes
[2025-09-14T19:08:15Z] <@arthurzam> sounds like an "are fine". so ulm, what now is the correct action from council standpoint?
[2025-09-14T19:08:36Z] <@ulm> commit to AUTHORS file?
[2025-09-14T19:08:44Z] <@arthurzam> OK, so no need for council vote
[2025-09-14T19:08:56Z] <@arthurzam> then let's go to next one
[2025-09-14T19:09:02Z] <@arthurzam> bug 959157 for eschwartz (nick ztrawhcse in IRC)
[2025-09-14T19:09:03Z] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/959157 "Request for listing "Eli Schwartz" in metadata/AUTHORS"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; eschwartz:council
[2025-09-14T19:09:07Z] <@ulm> if it's the (reduced) list from the bug then I dont think we nedd any firther review
[2025-09-14T19:09:12Z] <@ulm> *need
[2025-09-14T19:09:43Z] <@arthurzam> I think the list fort this one is very comprehensive and simple, so also fine with commit?
[2025-09-14T19:09:58Z] <@ulm> no objections here
[2025-09-14T19:10:10Z] <@arthurzam> OK, tracker done, now to next one
[2025-09-14T19:10:19Z] <@arthurzam> (ulm, please commit them after the meeting)
[2025-09-14T19:10:24Z] <@arthurzam> bug 936211, any updates?
[2025-09-14T19:10:25Z] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936211 "[Tracker] Gentoo Foundation dissolution"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; ulm:trustees
[2025-09-14T19:10:34Z] <@arthurzam> robbat2: dilfridge: ?
[2025-09-14T19:10:52Z] <@ulm> arthurzam: robbat2 and ztrawhcse can commit them?
[2025-09-14T19:11:00Z] <@arthurzam> ulm: I think so.
[2025-09-14T19:11:16Z] <@arthurzam> I don't see a need for council vote I guess, unless someone disagrees with "no need to vote"
[2025-09-14T19:11:27Z] <@robbat2> no updates on Foundation since last month; I expect the USPTO's website to show trademark updates later this month
[2025-09-14T19:11:32Z] <@dilfridge|mobile> I think not so much happened in the meantime
[2025-09-14T19:12:04Z] <@ulm> robbat2: do we continue with transfer ot the trademarks to SPI then, or what is the plan?
[2025-09-14T19:12:07Z] <@ulm> *of
[2025-09-14T19:12:43Z] <@robbat2> that's correct for trademarks yes
[2025-09-14T19:12:45Z] <@dilfridge|mobile> I think the account statement situation improved
[2025-09-14T19:13:12Z] <@dilfridge|mobile>   / funds reporting
[2025-09-14T19:13:34Z] <@robbat2> not foundation-specific; but improving our financial reporting w/ SPI - I was included on a thread with other large fund holders at SPI who want to improve it overall
[2025-09-14T19:13:44Z] <@robbat2> nothing actionable there yet
[2025-09-14T19:14:29Z] <@arthurzam> any more questions?
[2025-09-14T19:15:30Z] -*- dilfridge|mobile 's picanha arrived
[2025-09-14T19:15:37Z] <@arthurzam> sounds like none
[2025-09-14T19:15:39Z] <@arthurzam> And finally, one we should have more to talk about, bug 961811
[2025-09-14T19:15:40Z] <willikins> arthurzam: https://bugs.gentoo.org/961811 "Consider procuring Token2 PIN+ security keys for developers"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; tamiko:council
[2025-09-14T19:15:56Z] <@arthurzam> I heard from other places many good stuff about those products
[2025-09-14T19:16:18Z] <@arthurzam> And I think they support the level we need.
[2025-09-14T19:16:32Z] <@robbat2> did we get any response from Yubikey about foundation pricing? I think arisut had taken that, but I'm not certain
[2025-09-14T19:17:14Z] <@arthurzam> I don't think we ever got response from them?
[2025-09-14T19:18:09Z] <@ulm> "Dimensions 24 mm x 15 mm x 6 mm" for the USB-C version
[2025-09-14T19:18:40Z] <@ulm> technically this also violates the USB-C connector spec, see bug 801499 comment #18
[2025-09-14T19:18:40Z] <willikins> ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/801499#c18 "Approach Nitrokey for Nitrokey 3 upgrade"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; RESO, WONT; sam:trustees
[2025-09-14T19:19:01Z] <@ulm> though it's way better than Nitrokey 3 which is 19 mm wide
[2025-09-14T19:19:39Z] <@arthurzam> I think all those usb-c are really intended for phones, not laptops
[2025-09-14T19:19:57Z] <@mgorny> ulm: yubikeys are smaller?
[2025-09-14T19:20:30Z] <@arthurzam> mgorny: "18 x 45 x 3.7"
[2025-09-14T19:21:08Z] <@ulm> mgorny: not sure about yubikey
[2025-09-14T19:21:35Z] <@robbat2> let's: 1. buy a few as samples to evaluate; 2. ask them about fufillment-offerings w/ pricing like we have with Nitrokey
[2025-09-14T19:21:38Z] <@ulm> about the token2, looking at the photo I'm not sure if 15 mm are the width
[2025-09-14T19:22:38Z] <@arthurzam> robbat2: can you explain (2)?
[2025-09-14T19:23:28Z] <@robbat2> w/ Nitrokey part of the deal is they ran a fufillment portal for us, developer provides something unique and shipping details; Foundation gets direct billed
[2025-09-14T19:23:49Z] <@robbat2> that said; Nitrokey's portal was bare bones
[2025-09-14T19:24:06Z] <@robbat2> and I never got to the bottom of why ******* was able to order keys after he left as a dev
NOTE: name was redacted, since later we learned it wasn't true.
[2025-09-14T19:24:42Z] <@ulm> gah, the token2 datasheet is located at some shady domain :(
[2025-09-14T19:24:48Z] <@mgorny> i've pinged tamiko to join, in case he had something to add
[2025-09-14T19:24:51Z] <@arthurzam> Sorry for such capitalistic question, but why would this company do this portal for us?
[2025-09-14T19:25:08Z] <@arthurzam> For our small group?
[2025-09-14T19:25:27Z] <@robbat2> they get a gaurentee of some number of orders
[2025-09-14T19:27:28Z] <@robbat2> I think we've purchased ~150 nitrokeys in the time we ran it
[2025-09-14T19:27:53Z] <@robbat2> inclusive of ensuing devs had a spare, replacement outside warranty
[2025-09-14T19:28:13Z] <@robbat2> ~$5500USD we have paid Nitrokey for that
[2025-09-14T19:28:13Z] <@mgorny> wait, people had a spare?
[2025-09-14T19:28:21Z] <@sam_> I wasn't aware of that either
[2025-09-14T19:28:30Z] <@mgorny> mine still works btw
[2025-09-14T19:28:34Z] <@sam_> mine died :p
[2025-09-14T19:28:43Z] <@sam_> yours might be the only one left
[2025-09-14T19:28:47Z] <@mgorny> lol, might be
[2025-09-14T19:28:53Z] <@arthurzam> yeah, mine died too (all those tattoo commits)
[2025-09-14T19:28:54Z] <@ulm> mine died years ago (the nk2)
[2025-09-14T19:29:05Z] <@mgorny> but honestly if i knew i'm eligible for a spare, i'd probably have ordered one when i heard of all of these dying on people
[2025-09-14T19:29:12Z] <@ulm> the nk3 sample worked last time I tried
[2025-09-14T19:29:41Z] <@robbat2> i would definetly do the spares on another vendor
[2025-09-14T19:29:59Z] <@robbat2> we didn't plan the spares initially
[2025-09-14T19:30:00Z] <@sam_> tbh I would've seen it as a bonus in the past, but after our experiences, it's a must now
[2025-09-14T19:30:14Z] <@robbat2> but there were so many that died and warranty was a hassle
[2025-09-14T19:31:23Z] <@arthurzam> ok, so let's consider further about step (2), but I think we can continue with step (1)   (based on robbat2's text?)
[2025-09-14T19:31:24Z] <@mgorny> robbat2: as in two different keys?
[2025-09-14T19:31:25Z] <@robbat2> return shipping for the failed parts was often more expensive (esp if the foundation counts paperwork cost to reimburse the dev on shipping it back) that just buying another made snse
[2025-09-14T19:33:34Z] <+tamiko> mgorny: available
[2025-09-14T19:34:22Z] <@mgorny> ^ if anyone has specific questions about token2
[2025-09-14T19:34:55Z] <@arthurzam> tamiko: I think ulm had question about dimensions of the usb-c variant, if it covers neighbor ports in laptops?
[2025-09-14T19:35:15Z] <@ulm> yes, is 15 mm the width? or 24 mm?
[2025-09-14T19:35:19Z] <@mgorny> tamiko: btw are you aware if it works with openkeychain on android over NFC?
[2025-09-14T19:36:02Z] <@robbat2> i have to go in 10 mins (at :45 past the hour)
[2025-09-14T19:36:44Z] <+tamiko> ulm: The width seems to be 15mm. The small USB-C formfactor has a small loop on one side that might interfere a bit but I had no problem with that. I can measure more carefully in a minute.
[2025-09-14T19:37:17Z] <+tamiko> mgorny: I have not tried the nfc interface yet. I can give it a try and report back.
[2025-09-14T19:38:34Z] <@robbat2> concrete: pick 3-4 people to get samples; and which model we'd be settling on. get me their names/shipping details and i'll place the orders on the Foundation credit card
[2025-09-14T19:39:04Z] <+tamiko> ulm: It is 15mm with a 2mm loop on the small USB-C variant.
[2025-09-14T19:39:34Z] <@arthurzam> robbat2:  sounds good. I can volunteer for that. Looks like it is 7 Euro to ship here, no idea if it is costly or not
[2025-09-14T19:40:23Z] <@ulm> tamiko: what do you mean by loop?
[2025-09-14T19:40:43Z] <@robbat2> ulm:   https://www.token2.com/shop/product/pin-minia-fido2-security-key-usb-a-release3-2 - has a place to attach a lanyard
[2025-09-14T19:40:52Z] <@sam_> can we do the technical measurements asynchronously? :)
[2025-09-14T19:41:45Z] <@mgorny> looks like it's 7 EUR to EU too
[2025-09-14T19:41:46Z] <@arthurzam> OK, so let's do the final vote:
[2025-09-14T19:41:50Z] <@mgorny> cheaper only within Switzerland
[2025-09-14T19:42:04Z] <@ulm> I don't see that on their photo, but yeah, let's wait for some samples
[2025-09-14T19:42:19Z] <@robbat2> the only weirdness on their site is shipping to *CHINA* is 52 EUR
[2025-09-14T19:42:29Z] <@robbat2> no 7 EUR option for shipping there
[2025-09-14T19:42:37Z] <@arthurzam> Motion: select 3-4 devs, pass information to robbat2, and we purchase a device and ship them (device and devs selected async)
[2025-09-14T19:42:54Z] -*- arthurzam yes
[2025-09-14T19:43:05Z] -*- robbat2 yes
[2025-09-14T19:43:17Z] -*- ulm yes
[2025-09-14T19:43:49Z] -*- sam_ yes
[2025-09-14T19:44:10Z] <@arthurzam> mgorny: dilfridge: ^
[2025-09-14T19:44:21Z] -*- mgorny yes
[2025-09-14T19:44:24Z] <@robbat2> (their shipping tracker is missing some countries that feel weird, but we no longer have developers in Africa or South America)
[2025-09-14T19:44:37Z] <@sam_> we may have one in ZA soon
[2025-09-14T19:44:49Z] <@soap_> sorry, was cleaning my room and phone died with timer
[2025-09-14T19:44:57Z] -*- soap_ yes
[2025-09-14T19:45:16Z] <@arthurzam> dilfridge|mobile: ?
[2025-09-14T19:45:31Z] <@dilfridge|mobile> Sec
[2025-09-14T19:45:54Z] -*- dilfridge|mobile yes
[2025-09-14T19:45:58Z] <@arthurzam> ok
[2025-09-14T19:46:04Z] <@arthurzam> 7 yes, motion passes
[2025-09-14T19:46:14Z] <@arthurzam> 3. Open floor
[2025-09-14T19:46:27Z] <@arthurzam> anything here, specially robbat2 as I know you need to got now
[2025-09-14T19:46:32Z] <@sam_> nothing from me
[2025-09-14T19:46:41Z] <@robbat2> note: please pick one dev inside the USA in that set; so we can find out if they get charged tariffs on the shipment
[2025-09-14T19:46:50Z] -*- dilfridge|mobile nothing
[2025-09-14T19:46:51Z] <@robbat2> but now i'm gone
[2025-09-14T19:46:56Z] <@arthurzam> ok
[2025-09-14T19:46:58Z] <@mgorny> i've pinged codeberg, since they didn't reply
[2025-09-14T19:47:08Z] <@arthurzam> yeah, so that email mgorny, thank you
[2025-09-14T19:47:19Z] <@arthurzam> But it looks like it won't go well with our repo size
[2025-09-14T19:48:01Z] <@arthurzam> let's wait 2 more minutes
[2025-09-14T19:48:03Z] <@mgorny> ztrawhcse was talking to them, looks like they're working on improving that
[2025-09-14T19:49:05Z] <@arthurzam> ok, 2min timeout
[2025-09-14T19:49:08Z] <@arthurzam> meeting closed
[2025-09-14T19:49:08Z] <@arthurzam> thanks everyone!