[21:00:30] <dionysos> okay
[21:00:35] <dionysos> meeting time
[21:00:39] <dionysos> !proj council
[21:00:40] <willikins> dionysos: (council@gentoo.org) arthurzam, dilfridge, mgorny, robbat2, sam, soap, ulm
[21:01:08] <mgorny> yes, boss
[21:01:10] <dionysos> https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/gJb06uCKTcC6t5kAfp9ZnQ@gentoo.org/T/#u
[21:01:19] <dionysos> ^ agenda link (fairly boring)
[21:01:20] -*- robbat2 present
[21:01:30] <dionysos> 1) roll call please
[21:01:32] -*- dionysos present
[21:01:33] -*- arthurzam here
[21:01:34] -*- ulm here
[21:01:40] -*- mgorny here
[21:02:10] -*- eluks listening in :)
[21:02:36] <dionysos> sam_: soap: ping
[21:02:40] <robbat2> sam was in #gentoo-infra 10 mins ago
[21:02:54] <dionysos> ok let's wait until :05
[21:03:06] <ulm> eluks: no talk please, unless you've been given the floor by the chairman
[21:03:14] -*- sam_ here
[21:03:22] <mgorny> or chairwoman or chairperson
[21:03:28] -*- mgorny hides
[21:03:39] <ulm> chair entity
[21:03:48] <mgorny> aka &chair;
[21:03:50] <dionysos> sentient chair entitiy
[21:04:00] <dionysos> chairbeing
[21:05:09] -*- soap here
[21:05:16] <arthurzam> \o/
[21:05:17] <soap> sorry, didnt see alarm
[21:05:17] <dionysos> yaay
[21:05:20] <dionysos> ok
[21:05:37] <dionysos> 2) Merging the gentoo-project mailing list into gentoo-dev
[21:05:59] <dionysos> the intent is to also replace all occurences in documentation and guidelines/requirements/...
[21:06:09] <dionysos> do we need to discuss this?
[21:06:17] <dionysos> the response on the list was only positive
[21:06:21] <arthurzam> is it possible to "migrate" all subsribcribers to gentoo-dev?
[21:06:25] <mgorny> and quizzes
[21:06:33] <mgorny> which will mean all devs will have to take them again now xP
[21:06:35] -*- mgorny hides
[21:06:39] <dionysos> :D
[21:06:53] <robbat2> arthurzam: yes I can move subscribers around; but *SHOULD* we?
[21:07:02] <dionysos> that's a robbat2 question, but from all mailing list software I know my answer wouldbe "yes it's possible"
[21:07:16] <mgorny> actually, there was something i wanted to discuss that fit -project, and i was waiting for this merge to happen, and now i forgot what it was
[21:07:17] <arthurzam> robbat2: no idea
[21:07:29] <dionysos> well
[21:07:44] <dionysos> if someone *reads* -project they will also read a notice that things move over
[21:07:57] <dionysos> people who dont read it dont need to move
[21:08:02] <ulm> I'd expect a large overlap between subscribers of the two lists
[21:08:15] <dionysos> that too, yes
[21:08:23] <arthurzam> I always suspect I fail to subsribe to -project, since it is too quiet
[21:08:35] <sam_> overlap in one direction, yes, but one of the motivations for this was that we have more people on -dev than -project :)
[21:08:35] <mgorny> i think that back in the day people unsubbed -dev because of stuff and kept -project
[21:08:41] <mgorny> but i think we're past taht
[21:08:45] <sam_> i don't have an opinion on if we carry them over
[21:08:50] <sam_> i'm fine with it if we do, fine if we don't
[21:08:56] <sam_> just we announce it is closing 
[21:08:59] -*- dionysos same
[21:09:20] <mgorny> the only kinda point in moving them would be that they don't miss threads before they resubscribe
[21:09:20] <arthurzam> Another question on it, do we think all the last-rite messages are too spammy for -dev ML?
[21:09:30] <sam_> I don't think so
[21:09:33] <mgorny> but then, there are public archives
[21:09:36] <dionysos> no, not really
[21:09:55] <sam_> plus they sometimes provoke discussion which is a feature, not a bug
[21:10:00] <dionysos> ++
[21:10:00] <mgorny> arthurzam: they also go to -announce, so not really
[21:10:08] <ulm> there aren't so many, and they're easy to detect automatically
[21:10:27] <mgorny> in general, if it's not too spammy for -announce, it's definitely not for -dev
[21:10:35] <mgorny> (-dev-announce, i mean)
[21:10:39] <ulm> +1
[21:10:49] <robbat2> subscriber counts: -proj: 298; -dev: 1063; both: 215; proj-only: 83; dev-only: 848
[21:11:46] <sam_> those numbers make clear it is quite important to do this
[21:12:02] <sam_> (as in, the closure)
[21:12:19] <sam_> imo let's say no carry over, just post a closure notice
[21:12:33] <dionysos> works for me
[21:12:47] <ulm> yes, no moving of subscribers
[21:13:09] <robbat2> mail counts, year-to-date: project: 49; dev: 848; dev-announce: 85
[21:13:23] <dionysos> ok anything else on this topic?
[21:13:31] <arthurzam> vote?
[21:13:45] <sam_> there's no point if nobody objects
[21:13:46] <dionysos> then let's vote on the proposal, one moment:
[21:14:02] <sam_> (i'm fine with it, but I mean not a single soul even objected on the ML)
[21:14:05] <arthurzam> sam_: I think we had a lot of votes in hostiry with 7 yes
[21:14:15] <ulm> no need to vote
[21:14:29] <robbat2> i prefer we do have votes; makes the minutes much clearer
[21:14:54] <dionysos> motion: "We functionally merge the gentoo-project list into the gentoo-dev list. All references in documentation and rules are adapted accordingly as editorial changes. gentoo-project receives a closure notice and is disabled."
[21:15:13] -*- arthurzam yes
[21:15:15] -*- sam_ yes
[21:15:17] <robbat2> + "subscribers are NOT added; they should make a manual decision to subscribe"
[21:15:17] -*- dionysos yes
[21:15:18] -*- mgorny yes
[21:15:19] <ulm> archives to be kept?
[21:15:20] -*- robbat2 yes
[21:15:28] <robbat2> archives always kept
[21:15:32] -*- soap yes
[21:15:34] <dionysos> archives always kept
[21:15:36] -*- ulm yes
[21:15:39] <robbat2> i would NOT merge the archives either
[21:15:52] <dionysos> noo, please dont merge any archives, that would be silly
[21:16:08] <dionysos> historical refernce
[21:16:35] <dionysos> ok
[21:16:49] <dionysos> 3. Open bugs with Council participation
[21:17:02] <dionysos> we have 6 open bugs
[21:17:19] <dionysos> bug 961301
[21:17:20] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/961301 "[Tracker] Requests for metadata/AUTHORS"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:council
[21:17:35] <dionysos> no new requests as far as I can see, so nothing to do
[21:17:49] <dionysos> bug 961811
[21:17:50] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/961811 "Consider procuring Token2 PIN+ security keys for developers"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; tamiko:council
[21:17:59] <dionysos> any news here?
[21:18:42] <robbat2> i didn't get responses; who else was going to email them?
[21:18:47] <robbat2> i recall that as the last discussion
[21:18:54] <dionysos> uh
[21:18:58] <dionysos> me?
[21:19:10] -*- dionysos slinks away in shame
[21:19:29] <dionysos> or was it our swiss guy?
[21:19:39] <robbat2> i was looking at the DKIM stuff on Woodpecker; and I think that may have contributed to some of the non-answers
[21:19:50] <arthurzam> maybe he is still neutral
[21:19:54] <sam_> the rejects are getting quite bad 
[21:20:00] <soap> oh damn, yes, I forgot
[21:20:01] <sam_> i'm getting a lot the last week or so
[21:20:13] <dionysos> ok soap will do it then :)
[21:20:17] <robbat2> i am very concerned that we're going to break mail for some devs if I implement DKIM
[21:20:26] <robbat2> specifically forwarding
[21:20:33] <sam_> the alternative is nobody getting our mails which is worse :)
[21:20:49] <ulm> why would dkim break forwarding?
[21:21:06] <dionysos> ok that is an important discussion but only semi-relevant here, can we please postpone it?
[21:21:12] <ulm> sure
[21:21:13] <robbat2> sorry
[21:21:25] <dionysos> bug 962281
[21:21:26] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/962281 "Clean up consultants list"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; negril.nx+gentoo:council
[21:21:32] <robbat2> can we go back to the token2 for asec?
[21:21:36] <dionysos> ok
[21:21:51] <dionysos> go ahead
[21:21:58] <robbat2> who is going to do it? when are you going to do it? will you clearly convey we need this via SPI?
[21:22:16] <robbat2> (we flubbed this last time; trying to improve our organizational handling)
[21:23:27] <soap> what exactly does SPI need to know?
[21:23:36] <dionysos> so the plan was that our swiss dev-in-chee,err,charge does it
[21:24:02] <robbat2> soap: if we have to sign a contract that we'll need to do it via SPI
[21:24:07] <robbat2> because we are trying to dissolve the foundation
[21:25:34] <soap> robbat2: you'll need to tell me how you approached nitro then
[21:25:49] <robbat2> sure; let's finish right after the meeting
[21:25:56] <robbat2> thank you chair
[21:26:24] <dionysos> bug 962281
[21:26:24] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/962281 "Clean up consultants list"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; negril.nx+gentoo:council
[21:26:47] <dionysos> I think the plan here was to post something to the list?
[21:27:33] <dionysos> ok so if noone has a better idea, I'll write a list e-mail after the meeting
[21:27:55] <dionysos> mostly as call for discussion, "how to update" and "how to avoid silly double listings"
[21:28:10] <dionysos> anyone else?
[21:28:33] <dionysos> ok
[21:28:40] <dionysos> bug 965878
[21:28:41] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/965878 "[TRACKER] Codeberg migration"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; mgorny:council
[21:29:08] <dionysos> I dont see anything new and any action items there at the moment, so let's go on
[21:29:15] <mgorny> yep, all good
[21:29:23] <dionysos> bug 965900
[21:29:24] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/965900 "GLEP 63: update key recommendations"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; mgorny:council
[21:29:42] <dionysos> seems to be blocked by the token2 stuff
[21:29:48] <dionysos> so nothing to do now
[21:30:08] <dionysos> bug 936211
[21:30:09] <willikins> dionysos: https://bugs.gentoo.org/936211 "[Tracker] Gentoo Foundation dissolution"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; ulm:trustees
[21:30:24] <dionysos> any changes in status / news?
[21:30:37] <robbat2> none; has been a busy last month for me on work stuff
[21:30:41] <mgorny> nope
[21:31:17] <dionysos> just as little poke from me, sorting the account signees out in the usa would be nice
[21:31:46] <dionysos> neither more nor less urgent than the other stuff, but needs to be done first
[21:31:54] <dionysos> ok
[21:31:57] <robbat2> agreed; the one passive positive thing I see is that another two paypal subs dropped
[21:32:10] <dionysos> 4. Open floor
[21:32:14] <dionysos> Anyone?
[21:32:36] <ztrawhcse> given the recent discussion about Twitter, I decided there is an actual good point. which is the lack of bsky
[21:32:47] <ztrawhcse> so I volunteer to manage a bsky account for gentoo
[21:32:52] <dionysos> \o/
[21:32:57] <dionysos> thanks
[21:33:09] <sam_> +1
[21:33:12] <robbat2> can we find a good cross-platform social media magagement tool?
[21:33:13] <ulm> who's taking care of rearranging the website footer?
[21:33:35] <robbat2> hootsuite is terrible; and Postiz is LLM garbage now
[21:33:42] <dionysos> ulm: I can take care of that, but I somewhat doubt that the ancient fontawesome has something suitable
[21:33:45] <arthurzam> at least someone should update the tyrian theme, we can then copy it to all websites
[21:33:45] <arthurzam> I'm afraid the icon issue is a headache
[21:33:46] <ztrawhcse> we'll need a TXT record to prove it's us, I'll deal with that in -infra and arrange for backup logins
[21:34:09] <dionysos> robbat2++
[21:34:14] <dionysos> we need something
[21:34:25] <dionysos> let's try to research that until next month
[21:34:47] <dionysos> relatedly
[21:35:10] <dionysos> we should briefly meet after the meeting in the private channel, re our prospective donor contact
[21:36:03] <-- ingenarel (~ingenarel@user/ingenarel) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:36:04] <dionysos> if there is nothing else
[21:36:27] <arthurzam> I have a small GLEP update planned for next meeting
[21:36:30] <dionysos> ok
[21:36:32] <dionysos> go ahead
[21:36:52] --> ingenarel (~ingenarel@user/ingenarel) hat #gentoo-council betreten
[21:37:00] <arthurzam> (meant that one https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/20260509093355.562591-1-arthurzam@gentoo.org/T/#u)
[21:37:06] <arthurzam> I don't expect a lot of convo about it
[21:37:37] <dionysos> ok
[21:37:41] <robbat2> (post-meeting discussions): -infra: DKIM w/ Robin+Sam; -council: how nitrokey comms went; (private): prospective donor
[21:37:53] <arthurzam> ACK
[21:38:03] <robbat2> arthurzam: nit: please make it an explicit boolean; don't rely just on presence for the behavior you desire
[21:38:17] <dionysos> then let's close the meeting and briefly head to the private channel
[21:38:17] -*- dionysos bangs the gavel