<@ulm> who wants the chair? one of the new council members? :) <@floppym> I would prefer not to dive into the deep end immediately. [17:02] <@dionysos> ulm: always the one who asks :P <@ulm> *sigh* <@ulm> agenda is here: https://public-inbox.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/uldbc842s@gentoo.org/ [17:03] <@ulm> roll call * @arthurzam here * @ztrawhcse here <@floppym> here * @dionysos here * @ulm here * @mgorny here <@floppym> Just missing sam? * @sam_ here [17:04] <@ulm> excellent <@ulm> Constitute the new council <@ulm> - Decide on time of meetings. The previous council had its meetings on the 2nd Sunday of every month at 19:00 UTC <@ulm> can we keep this, or any other suggestions? <@dionysos> so, as the one outlier right now, * @mgorny is always happy to do it earlier <@arthurzam> 16 UTC? [17:05] <@ulm> dionysos: ? <@sam_> 16:00 UTC is quite early for floppym and ztrawhcse and they both expressed they'd prefer it not be around this time if possible, but OK as a one-off, I believe <@sam_> well, quite/somewhat :) <@arthurzam> oh, so even now 15:00 UTC is too early, ok [17:06] <@floppym> It is 15:00 now? This is fine. <@ztrawhcse> this is fine for me too <@floppym> So 16 would be ok with me. <@sam_> oh ok <@ztrawhcse> the issue was 12:00 or so was too early I think? <@ztrawhcse> it's 11am here <@floppym> 10 am was pushing it for me. <@floppym> I usually wake up around then. [17:07] <@dionysos> I'm still on GMT+9 in August, but September and October back in DE <@ulm> everyone fine with 16:00 UTC? <@dionysos> afterwards, no information yet <@ztrawhcse> mild preference for 1500 utc maybe on my part <@ulm> and maybe 15:00 in August? <@ztrawhcse> either one is workable for me <@mgorny> 16 UTC works for me <@arthurzam> sounds good to me for both. We could decide at end of each meeting when next one is <@floppym> I am good with wither 15 or 16. [17:08] <@sam_> i'd prefer 16 in general <@ztrawhcse> regarding the day of the month, I can guarantee in advance that for Jewish holiday reasons I can't make all 12 months on either the first, second, or third Sunday of the month <@ulm> arthurzam: no, that would be confusing <@ztrawhcse> I'll call it a wash and say I'll have someone else cover me that month <@dionysos> that works, we'll just try to minimize it somehow <@dionysos> 15:00 in Aug, 16:00 later works for me [17:09] <@sam_> wfm too <@floppym> ok <@ulm> let's have a quick vote, meetings on the 2nd Sunday of every month at 16:00 UTC, except August where it's one hour earlier <@sam_> as for holidays: we can also just do the last Sunday of the month? <@sam_> is anyone actually bothered by that? <@arthurzam> or decide special month a special week <@sam_> or that <@sam_> is it just one month this applies to? <@floppym> I have no preference as to which Sundays we meet. <@ztrawhcse> for September I can only make the first Sunday of the month [17:10] <@arthurzam> I think so, mainly Tishrei month <@ztrawhcse> actually <@dionysos> I think everyone misses out once or twice, it's probably better to keep a fixed (and ideally unchanged) schedule <@mgorny> some miss without an excuse * @mgorny hides <@ulm> just find a proxy? <@ztrawhcse> yes, like I said I don't mind getting a proxy [17:11] <@sam_> perhaps let's say 16:00 UTC, and then later on, if we can figure out a static change that works the entire term (like last instead of first) Sunday, that'd be best. if not we can talk about proxies instead <@sam_> but i think a bit of change is no bad thing to accommodate especially if we know well in advnace <@sam_> *advance <@dionysos> yeah <@ztrawhcse> there is no good timing for all 12 months because luck of the calendar, so I'll settle for 11 months, it's fine :D <@sam_> if only one month is affected or so then it's fine [17:12] <@sam_> I was just worried it was more <@arthurzam> ok <@ulm> so, motion: meetings on the 2nd Sunday of every month at 16:00 UTC, except August where it's 15:00 * @ulm yes * @arthurzam yes * @dionysos yes * @sam_ yes * @ztrawhcse yes * @floppym yes * @mgorny yes [17:13] <@ulm> thanks :) <@ulm> - Vote for continuing last council's workflow considering sending a call for agenda items (two weeks in advance), sending the agenda (one week in advance) and have the meeting focussed, i.e. have major discussions on the gentoo-dev mailing list prior to the meeting <@ulm> does anyone want to discuss this? <@dionysos> no <@dionysos> :) <@ztrawhcse> uncontroversial to me <@arthurzam> :) <@floppym> seems ok to me <@ulm> k <@ulm> - Appoint chairmen for this term's meetings <@ulm> I can take August too [17:14] <@ulm> Sep/Oct? <@mgorny> i'll take them <@sam_> i'll do nov/dec <@arthurzam> I don't have preferences, except I want to chair less. I expect much more military service in the coming year <@ulm> Jan/Feb? * @dionysos jan/feb <@ulm> Mar/Apr? <@arthurzam> fine <@ulm> arthurzam: you take Mar/Apr? [17:15] <@arthurzam> so be it <@mgorny> arthurzam: you can take one month, there's 7 of us for 12 months <@arthurzam> oh, right <@arthurzam> please let me take one month <@ulm> sure <@ulm> March? <@arthurzam> ok [17:16] <@floppym> I'll do Apr/May then? <@ulm> k <@ulm> June? <@ztrawhcse> sure <@ulm> Open bugs with council involvement <@ulm> bug 936211 [17:17] https://bugs.gentoo.org/936211 "[Tracker] Gentoo Foundation dissolution"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; ulm:trustees <@ulm> any news there? <@dionysos> none from me <@ulm> let's wait for the AGM <@sam_> I need to ping robbat2 for the donor list stuck on paypal for any I recognise <@sam_> that's the only thing I know of pending <@ulm> yeah, that one isn't progressing [17:18] <@ulm> bug 961301 https://bugs.gentoo.org/961301 "[Tracker] Requests for metadata/AUTHORS"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; ulm:council *** fkobi (~user@user/fkobi) has joined channel #gentoo-council <@ulm> nothing there I think <@ulm> bug 961811 ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/961811 "Consider procuring Token2 PIN+ security keys for developers"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; tamiko:council <@dionysos> we still need to reply to a certain e-mail <@sam_> this one seems to drag on <@robbat2> (I am here for open floor) <@robbat2> (I wanted to ask soap's progress on Token2; and that donor email) <@ulm> robbat2: now is a good time I think [17:19] <@ulm> but open floor is also fine of course <@robbat2> Soap was going to email token2 per the previous minutes; I don't know if it happened <@robbat2> if it didn't, somebody else please pick it up [17:20] <@robbat2> that past meeting covered the steps they need to do <@ulm> if he did, he hasn't CCed council <@robbat2> re finding what procurement options are possible <@dionysos> he isnt online right now, we can ask him when he pops up again <@robbat2> ztrawhcse: was it you that offered to re-ship within the USA? [17:21] <@ztrawhcse> I think so, yeah <@ztrawhcse> either way it's ok with me, not much to do other than find some time to run out to the post office I guess [17:22] <@sam_> thanks <@sam_> that makes it far more feasible <@robbat2> because of $job; I was looking into a similar problem space recently [17:23] <@robbat2> and if we didn't want to do that, we can look at 3rd-party logistics w/ storage <@robbat2> for a single product SKU it's $3-5usd/mo <@robbat2> but I don't know how long we'd hold the stock overall [17:24] <@ztrawhcse> I have a spare drawer available for the next few years :) <@ulm> robbat2: ztrawhcse: can you contact soap after the meeting? [17:25] <@robbat2> yep <@ztrawhcse> yes <@ulm> anything else for this bug? <@ulm> bug 962281 ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/962281 "Clean up consultants list"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; negril.nx+gentoo:council <@robbat2> who is going to take on token2? <@robbat2> lets assume that soap dropped it <@robbat2> i want a new council member to continue that work [17:26] <@ulm> who speaks French? :) <@ulm> mine is a little rusty, but if nobody else volunteers, I can take it on <@dionysos> ++ thanks [17:27] <@ulm> but let's wait for soap <@floppym> Je ne parles pas le francais :) * @dionysos channels the Merovingian <@ulm> bug 962281 ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/962281 "Clean up consultants list"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; CONF; negril.nx+gentoo:council <@ulm> no progress there either <@dionysos> sent mail to the list, no response at all [17:28] <@ulm> dionysos: can you follow up on it? <+NeddySeagoon> Drop the page then ? <@dionysos> ulm: well, yes, but how? <@dionysos> "pretty please, anyone?" <@ulm> what NeddySeagoon suggested. no replies => drop the page [17:29] <@dionysos> ok will do <@ulm> wait <@ulm> mail was sent to the list only, not to the consultants specifically? <@dionysos> so far yes <@sam_> one might argue that shows they're not engaged at all [17:30] <@ulm> maybe that should be done then? <@sam_> (which is the whole problem) <@ulm> sam_: also true <@dionysos> I'll send another list mail, proposing exactly that <@ulm> +1 <@dionysos> (dropping the page if noone responds) <@robbat2> kill a few birds - update the page to say that consultants must be on the list; and publish the last confirmed date, get them to update annual [17:31] <@robbat2> no updates after x months -> auto-remove <@ulm> robbat2: if you write the script for that :) <@sam_> I will reply but it won't be saying we necc. have to keep it, will discuss there; I have a conflict of interest in that I think I'm the only one here who makes his living off such things at the moment, but I'm also not on the list right now <@robbat2> hey; i dropped off council to focus on more infra & closing foundation stuff <@robbat2> sam_: you should get added :-) [17:32] <@ulm> anyway, moving on <@ulm> bug 965878 ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/965878 "[TRACKER] Codeberg migration"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; CONF; mgorny:council <@robbat2> [afk kids] <@mgorny> well, we're seeing a lot of API 50xs recently [17:33] <@floppym> This is a tracker bug with no open blockers? <@ulm> floppym: yes <@sam_> yeah, will do :) <@sam_> I think wrt migration we're done, except for the API problems <@dionysos> mgorny: did anyone ask them? <@dionysos> (what's going on) <@ulm> we can leave it open for another month <@mgorny> laumann recently reached, but for different problems <@mgorny> i think "migration" would involve more strongly pushing people to use codeberg over github [17:34] <@floppym> Maybe open a bug about the API issues so we know why it is being kept open? <@mgorny> but if codeberg is pretty unstable, that kinda defeats the purpose <@mgorny> (not that github is stable) <@mgorny> i.e. what i wanted to say, i think we should consider it "done" only when our recommendation is "use codeberg over github" [17:35] <@ulm> mgorny: can you open a bug for the API issues? <@mgorny> yeah, will do <@ulm> thanks * @mgorny is a bit swamped <@ulm> bug 965900 [17:36] ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/965900 "GLEP 63: update key recommendations"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; CONF; mgorny:council <@ulm> this one is blocked by token2 <@ulm> and finally bug 975402 ulm: https://bugs.gentoo.org/975402 "Shut down (archive) gentoo-project mailing list (merged into gentoo-dev ML)"; Gentoo Infrastructure, Mailing Lists; IN_P; sam:infra-bugs <@sam_> I think we're done on that one <@ulm> can this be closed? <@floppym> I'm a bit unclear on why Token2 blocks the GLEP 63 update. <@sam_> I was waiting on the recruiter quiz <@sam_> which is now solved <@floppym> GLEP 63 makes no mention of security tokens. <@ulm> floppym: apparently that was discussed in the March meeting [17:37] <@ulm> but I'd have to look it up <@dionysos> the question is (I think) how strongly we want to push for ecc keys <@sam_> the idea was to not push people towards something the hardware we provide can't support <@dionysos> exactly <@sam_> however people may well have their own hardware anyway, and as long as we allow RSA, it's not a big deal <@floppym> Okay. This is diverging a bit, but do we document a recommendation for people to use hardware devices for PGP stuff? [17:38] <@floppym> I feel like I'm missing something there. <@ztrawhcse> if people can't even create an ecc key on the old hardware then "ecc is preferred for new keys, if you can" is easy to implement as "well I can't" <@ztrawhcse> it's not like people need hardware token support for reading other people's signatures [17:39] <@sam_> ztrawhcse: https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0063.html#recommendations already says "hardware limitations" too <@sam_> floppym: no, but it's implied by us telling developers they can have a token when they join, I guess <@sam_> I agree it's not really a requirement <@sam_> it's more of a common sense do-at-same-time if easy to align, but clearly it's not, so maybe we go ahead <@ulm> an update of the GLEP could be drafted a now? [17:41] <@dionysos> could yes, but does it make sense? <@ulm> we haven't yet decided on the specific variant of token2, but they should be similar enough <@floppym> I think I would like to see what people reccomend these days, since I don't follow PGP stuff closely. <@floppym> (regardless of specific hardware limitations) [17:42] <@ulm> discuss this in the bug, or -dev ML? <@floppym> Okay. <@ulm> that's all for open bugs [17:43] <@dionysos> ulm: everything with firmware 3.3 <@ulm> open floor <@sam_> robbat2 said he wanted to discuss donor <@sam_> but he may be afk now <@arthurzam> I think we might have a problem with previous metting logs/summary <@sam_> yes, I plan on doing my due ones shortly [17:44] <@dionysos> I need to do my summaries backlog <@ulm> should I file bugs for the missing ones? <@sam_> not much point in my case, I already know it needs doing <@floppym> The chair does the summaries? <@sam_> yes [17:45] <@dionysos> I know what's missing. <@ulm> in the olden times we had a secretary, but that wasn't perfect either :) <@dionysos> fwiw, I wanted to restart work on my humungous pdf document, but then realized I need to fix my code for the e-mail links (archive => public-inbox) [17:46] <@sam_> we have redirects now i think? <@dionysos> yes, but only for the historic ones <@dionysos> the new ones not :) <@ulm> sam_: I just hit one today that didn't work <@ulm> so better to update <@sam_> can you file a bug for that too please? [17:47] <@ztrawhcse> a couple times recently I've seen ancient links that don't work. if I can remember which ones those were... <@ulm> sam_: yes, if I find it again :) <@sam_> it's the first i hear of the problem so wasn't on my agenda <@sam_> or maybe once a while ago <@ulm> anything else for open floor? [17:48] <@ulm> (waiting until 15:50) * @dionysos grabs a KitKat White Chocolate & Strawberry [17:49] * @arthurzam is roasting a tuna canister <@floppym> What is a tuna canister? <@arthurzam> a can of 1kg of tuna (fish) in oil <@dionysos> wow [17:50] <@ulm> meeting closed <@ulm> thanks everyone! <@arthurzam> thank you <@floppym> Ah so just as it sounds. ^_^ <@ztrawhcse> tuna can(ister) -> can of tuna:P <@mgorny> thanks! <@arthurzam> oh, sorry - mistranslated <@sam_> thanks! <@dionysos> thanks all *** ulm (~ulm@gentoo/developer/ulm) has set the topic for #gentoo-council: "276th meeting: 2026-08-09 15:00 UTC | https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20260809T15 | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council | https://dev.gentoo.org/~dilfridge/decisions.pdf"