[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:44] Join tgurr has joined this channel (n=tgurr@hbrn-590f7fff.pool.einsundeins.de). [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:54] !herd kde [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:57] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:00] here? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:03] yes [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:19] Is it 18:00 hours already? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:22] yes [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:24] cryos|laptop: Yes. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:33] At least in UTC. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:34] 20:00 in germany :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:40] 20:01! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:44] I make it 14:01. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:58] cryos|laptop: You're *way* behind! ;-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:02:03] hi all :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:12] Any objections against waiting for two or three more minutes? Deathwing00 told me he would be here. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:43] yes [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:49] * cryos|laptop murmurs about German efficiency :D [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:52] just start [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:05:17] Ok, let's go then. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:05:47] 1. Update to the project page - are we happy with it now that it's been updated? Any additions, etc? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:06:55] i'm happy with it :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:03] We, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster and myself have added what we thought was appropriate and it seems we all agree on it, atm. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:29] So that task from the last meeting is done. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:50] 2. Review of the project page is done, too, aunless anyone objects now. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:11] Nope. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:34] 3. Process improvement - NeddySeagoon can't make it today, it seems. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:48] It doesn't seem as if much can be done about it anymore anyway... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:02] yup [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:19] 4. Miscellaneous - bump to KDE 3.5.8 [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:53] As I'Ve mailed to all of you, I've set up a git repository to collaborate on it. So far, jmbsvicetto, Ingmar^, tgurr and myself worked on it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:12] I've gotten exactly zero feedback to my mail about it. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:33] Are you manually bumping it? Sorry - I have been mostly offline these last few weeks/months. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:49] i couldn't answer because i'm currently not at home and running windows :( [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:11:13] cryos|laptop: we've bumped the monolithic ebuilds manually, yes. The splits were initially done by the script and are now being combed through manually. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:11:47] Philantrop: OK - sounds good. We always used to just mask and bump - why the git repo now if I may ask? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:20] cryos|laptop: The last bump was critisized by many as rushed and bad. I wanted to avoid that this time. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:26] Masking allowed us to get the arch teams on board and give them access to the tarballs before release via dev.gentoo.org and gentoo-core. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:44] Then we could just unmask after the official release. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:46] cryos|laptop: Furthermore, like this, interested users like Ingmar^ could help, too. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:01] cryos|laptop: And, of course, we'll put them into the tree and package.mask soon. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:26] Philantrop: thanks for your mail, was very good :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:34] Philantrop: is there a release date scheduled yet? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:41] Just seems to be making the process more hassle for arch teams to get involved with and interested users can send patches. I have been away so I am mainly asking. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:50] genstef: Yes, it's to be released on the 16th. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:36] cryos|laptop: Well, yes, they could but why not combine both? We can still do the p.mask/tarball stuff (like tomorrow :-) ) *and* let others help directly. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:46] I always worry about the trend towards overlays and separate repos making it harder to see and track stuff. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:58] Just my opinion though - I know others like it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:24] cryos|laptop: My main point is: People like Ingmar^ are very, very good dev "material" and training them on the job helps, IMHO. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:29] cryos|laptop: right, but this stuff isnot meant to be public by upstream [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:31] I have very little right to criticise anything due to my recent inactivity anyway. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:01] cryos|laptop: No, that's wrong. You have *all* the right to critisize. I'd just like to *convince* you. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:15] * cryos|laptop will be quiet - I can see the reasoning. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:45] well, but cryos is right. Last time the mail went to gentoo-core and every dev was able to test iirc [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:19] Anyway, I intend to put the stuff into the tree by tomorow (in p.mask) and inform -core. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:25] Any objections? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:37] Philantrop: right, sounds cool! Enough time for the arch teams to test then :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:54] genstef: Yes, I hope so. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:10] I don't think, though, we'll make it to 2007.1 or do you think we can/should? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:25] Into stable, I mean. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:34] When is the snapshot date? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:37] * genstef does not care about releases [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:48] everyone runs emerge --sync anyways .. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] xxxxxxxxxxxx - Initial snapshot [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] xxxxxxxxxxxx - Final snapshot [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] xxxxxxxxxxxx - Release [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:21] well, imo stable the earlier the better [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:25] cryos|laptop: ^^^ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:34] It would be silly to try and make those dates, but I totally agree with genstef. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:40] Stable the earlier the better. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:03] but 19th will not happen I think [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:04] genstef: Yes, same here. I just wouldn't want to tell the release guys now we'll make it and possibly delay them if we don't. Opinions? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:11] sorry, we are having dinner now, i'll read the conversation when i'm back [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:17] ok [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:36] Philantrop: so we will not make it [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:50] Philantrop: I wouldn't tell them we would make it - the 9th is too tight a schedule really. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:25] In some ways it is a shame - would be good to have 3.5.8 GRPed. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:33] Ok, let's say we can *try* but if we don't, the world will not stop spinning. I will *not* inform the release guys about us making it in time. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:53] sounds good to me [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:58] I'm home [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:02] Sorry for the delay [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:06] jmbsvicetto: Welcome back! :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:28] Ok, next point: "Changing to split ebuilds by default? That would mean going through all KDE ebuilds and changing the dependency order." [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:47] * genstef is against it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:56] * Philantrop is against it, too. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:05] But if you must for 4.0, you can [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:27] I don't see the need but maybe there are other opinions? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:34] I would rather see us do it for 4.0 and leave 3.5 well enough alone. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:10] yeah, not for 3.x [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:12] The apache herd screw around lots inside minor releases and it hasn't made them very popular... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:21] cryos|laptop: That sounds like a good idea. genstef, what do you think? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:31] May be not lots, but when they have it has been painful at times. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:33] and better kill monolithic stuff for 4.0 altogether [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:42] jakub: That's one more point later. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:43] jakub: sounds good [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:04] Philantrop: well, just a suggestion... :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:15] * cryos|laptop adds a here, here. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:22] but yeah, messing with the (last?) 3.5.x release in this way will piss off users [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:36] So, we keep the current dep order for now but change it to split as default for >=4.0? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:05] Philantrop: right, because split definitely has advantages, with many patches coming in [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:19] I would like to see us go to split by default [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:21] Philantrop: and 4.0 I expect to get many bugreports+patches early :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:23] genstef: Indeed. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:34] Philantrop: as said, you really want to keep monolithic stuff for 4.0? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:41] sounds just like maintenance overhead to me [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:49] jakub: hey, leave the lead to Philantrop! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:01] genstef: We already get them for the 4.0 overlays. Which leads us to the next point: KDE4 in the overlays. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:07] genstef: hey, gimme a beer! :P [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:17] I can live with split for >= 4.0, though [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:26] jmbsvicetto: Ok, that's decided then. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:30] * genstef paurs some beer into the wire to jakub's glass [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:44] anyway, the point - users are horrible confused by the blockers b/w monolithic/split, they've never grokked it [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:52] and really makes the eclasses/ebuilds a mess [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:08] KDE4 in the overlay is doing well. People are reporting bugs, installing it and using it. We currently have both monolithic and split ebuilds. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:40] and you have a special project and channel for it :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:42] jakub: I got a block earlier because I tried to emerge kdesdk-3.5.8 and kdevelop-3.5 [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:46] Personally, I'd like to keep the monolithic ebuilds. We usually follow upstream and we give our users the freedom of choice. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:54] Philantrop: if you could make zmedico into sticking ranged deps into EAPI-1 by the KDE4 release time, that'd be awesome :P [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:58] jakub: We should really have a way to prevent that [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:23] jakub: We need ranges and sets [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:48] jmbsvicetto: well, for sets, you can workaround in a semi-reasonable way by the metabuilds... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:52] jakub: That would allow us to drop the meta / meta use flags [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:54] for ranged deps, the hacks are insane :/ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:30:23] Let's assume for now that we won't get ranged deps/real sets in time for 4.0. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:30:46] Philantrop: gah, torture Zac to do it! :> [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:25] hehe [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:27] jakub: :-)) I can't. I only torture soon-to-be devs. Not grizzled veterans. ;-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:34] jakub: I thought your preferred method involved beer ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:51] jakub: even kegs of beer [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:01] jmbsvicetto: heh, if that fails, you need something more... effective :D [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:31] Guys, KDE4 and monolithic ebuilds - to keep them or not to keep them. That's the question. What's your answer? Mine is: Keep them. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:56] !herd kde [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:00] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:11] * genstef did not write those [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:23] so I just go with philantrop on that matter :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:38] Philantrop: As long as we can start the work for split from the meta, we might as well keep them [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:44] but the splits should be default by then [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:53] tgurr: Agreed. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:53] tgurr++ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:23] shrug; you're going to maintain the stuff :P [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:36] Three times "yes" so far: Philantrop, genstef, tgurr (splits will be default). cryos|laptop? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:49] like: kdebase and kdebase-mon? ;) instead of kdebase-meta? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:23] I would get rid, but don't object that much to keeping. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:24] -mon? :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:25] kdebase is going to be split in two, right? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:31] So I vote no. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:37] kdebase and kdebase-plasma(?) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:59] masterdriverz: Any thoughts? :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:36:13] cryos|laptop: Thanks, noted. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:05] Ok, so it's 3:1 for keeping the monolithic ebuilds for KDE4. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:17] Anything else on KDE4? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:37] jmbsvicetto: From our side we have runtime, workspace and apps in kdebase [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:43] * jakub still offers a keg for getting sets and ranged deps in b4 KDE4 :D [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:51] Sho_: sorry, that's it - kdebase and kdebase-workspace [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:28] Sho_: That's what Ingmar^ said, iirc [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:47] jmbsvicetto: ^^ ding ding - motivation above! :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:54] jmbsvicetto: Ingmar^ is a great fan of splitting. He might do even more. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:57] :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:57] anyway, /me out for a couple of plops, have fun guys :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:14] Quit tibix_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:17] Ok, the point for KDE4 should be done then. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:46] Join tibix_ has joined this channel (n=tibix@host86.200-45-178.telecom.net.ar). [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:48] Next point: I'm going to document the procedure of bumping to the minor KDE revisions. Any help is welcome. I'll present a draft soon. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:40:05] jakub: If we need you, we'll send you a *SIGBEER* ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:40:58] Anything I should take special care of when documenting possible bump procedures? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:01] Ok, obviously not. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:11] Philantrop: Sorry, but since you're talking about documentation, most people are likely to need some kde4 crash course - in particular to cmake [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:29] s/most/some/ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:31] jmbsvicetto: ok, sounds like a deal :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:56] jmbsvicetto: :-) Well, yes, but there's not much we can do about it, I think. Self-education should be most effective unless you have a better suggestion. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:43:40] jmbsvicetto: Unless you want to install a "re-education camp". ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:43:46] hehe [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:13] hmmm, camp... steaks... _beer_ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:19] Philantrop++ [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:21] Well, I guess I'll need to reeducate myself, since I haven't seen kde4 in a while ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:31] jmbsvicetto: I'll add this to the summary, though. Maybe someone has an idea or helpful link. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:52] jakub: I thought more along the lines of a prison camp. ;-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:59] Philantrop: it would be cool to explain why it is best to have the non-working ebuilds in the git to allow external help and afterwards in gentoo-x86 to allow internal testing :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:32] genstef: It doesn't have to be git, just an overlay [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:46] jmbsvicetto: right [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:46] genstef: But git is good a choice [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:10] git would be cool for the portage tree imo. Just pull from external contributors :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:16] well, * >> cvs :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:36] genstef: You know how the cvs/svn/git/* debate ended last time ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:48] genstef: We don't *have* to do it in a git repository for all times. This was just one approach. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:07] jmbsvicetto: well yeah, it's not gonna get anywhere... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:11] jmbsvicetto: ok, better not discuss it then ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:20] jmbsvicetto: we'll be stuck w/ cvs until we switch infra first [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:53] jakub: I wouldn't say that. I think robbat2 is close to accept git [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:06] !herd kde [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:09] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:09] switch infra! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:10] Anything else we should discuss? :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:11] jakub: He has worked on it to supress the shortcommings [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:16] * jakub really out now... oh btw, getting the new eclasses eclass-manpages friendly would be nice :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:26] jakub: Yes, that's in the making. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:48] Philantrop: if you want help, poke me ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:55] Philantrop: What about the cmake eclass? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:00] jakub: Thanks, I surely will! :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:26] jmbsvicetto: We have one more showstopper in it: cmake-utils-src_test. We need to work on that before I re-submit it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:26] Philantrop: Has it been merged to Portage or is it still on the overlay? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:36] jmbsvicetto: It's still in the overlay only. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:37] Philantrop: Oh and one final issue - ATs/HTs! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:43] waah, cmake.eclass is not yet in the tree? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:56] urrx, should be imo [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:50:12] genstef: Unfortunately, no. People had lots of suggestions. We've done most of it but that one remains. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:50:28] genstef: I'm going to try to get it in next week, though. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:51:45] jmbsvicetto: ping [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:51:55] The problem is: cmake-utils' src_test is mostly a copy of the one in ebuild.sh but we currently need it to check whether it's an in-source or out-of-source build. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:05] Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:37] jmbsvicetto: "ATs/HTs". What's your suggestion about them? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:51] Well, glep41 http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0041.html created ATs and HTs [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:01] jmbsvicetto: so, config ata is sompiled into the kernel, same as config ide [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:03] I think kde would benefit from having a HT team [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:10] jmbsvicetto: Yes, but it has been rejected by the council in its current state. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:19] shade: We're in the middle of a meeting. Give us a few minutes, ok? Thanks [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:34] Philantrop: Not rejected. It hasn't been implemented [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:36] jmbsvicetto: ok, np:) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:51] Philantrop: And ATs get official recognition [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:55] jmbsvicetto: I thought so, too. Look at the relevant meeting's log, though. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:21] Philantrop: What hasn't been accepted is the @g.o email addresses. Everything else was accepted [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:32] Philantrop: So, can I be a kde ht? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:40] We use HTs in the sci herd quite successfully. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:42] jmbsvicetto: There's nothing to say against Herd Testers, though. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:57] Philantrop: Pretty, pretty please? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:04] ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:05] cryos|laptop: Oh? That's good to know. Never heard about them before. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:05] I got them boosted bugzilla powers and access the overlay. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:23] Philantrop: Quite a few went on to become devs later too. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:32] cryos|laptop: How's the procedure to make them HTs? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:55] I think I was supposed to make a web page about this stuff. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:01] cryos|laptop: :-)) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:05] Philantrop: Anyway, "personally" I won't gain anything I don't have yet, with the exception of showing up in the kde team page. But other people could get official recognition [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:27] jmbsvicetto: Well, there's precedent, it seems and it makes sense... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:31] I just used to talk to someone who I have forgotten now who was in charge of the AT project about getting bugzie sorted. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:34] yeah, I like the idea [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:41] cryos|laptop: hparker ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:43] cryos|laptop: That would be hparker. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:48] Yes jmbsvicetto! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:54] cryos|laptop: hparker [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:57] It has been a while :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:08] So, do we want Herd Testers? I support the idea. Others? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:20] I think it works well and would support the idea. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:35] cryos|laptop: s/would/will/ !!! ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:57] masterdriverz, tgurr: Your vote? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:04] sure :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:08] It is a great chance for people to get a bit of a taste of being a dev and decide if it is for them. Some only ever want the HT position and others drift away again,. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:43] Means when people go on to become devs they are usually more certain about actually wanting to do it too. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:56] Ok, so we have four "yes" (genstef, cryos|laptop, tgurr, Philantrop) and no objections. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:04] cryos|laptop: Yes, sounds really good to me. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:21] I'll talk to hparker about it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:24] so we need some amendment to the project page about that, right? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:39] genstef: Yes, thanks for volunteering! ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:45] including the procedure of how a herd member goes about promoting someone to HT :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:50] ok :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:58] genstef: You would add a section listing the HT members and some documentation on how to become one [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:06] right [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:29] genstef: So you'd be willing to make a draft for that? Maybe for the next meeting (or earlier)? :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:30] genstef: I'm probably going to have to do something similar for sparc ATs, so if you want, I can work with you on that [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:02] jmbsvicetto: ok, cool! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:14] Philantrop: will send it to kde@gentoo.org then [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:27] genstef, jmbsvicetto: Thanks, guys! I'll add that to the summary, too. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:44] Anything else, gentlemen? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:02:43] Philantrop: About six-sigma, are we still interested in trying it on kde? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:02:55] Philantrop: If so, do we leave that for a future meeting where NeddySeagoon can help? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:03:12] jmbsvicetto: Good question. Opinions? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:03:36] six-sigma? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:07] tgurr: Oh, right. That was before your dev time. It's a process improvement thing. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:25] tgurr: I'll forward you a mail about it. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:47] re [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:00] I'd say we invite Neddy to our next meeting and see about it then. Any objections? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:07] Philantrop, thanks :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:14] keytoaster: Welcome back! :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:27] :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:29] Anything else? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:29] I'll make a summary of our meeting and export a log from Konversation. I'll mail it around to kde@g.o and if it's fine, I'll ask keytoaster to add it to our project page. Ok? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:33] Philantrop: Maybe just a heads-up about next meeting date? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:39] Philantrop: thanks :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:41] Philantrop: sure [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:07:08] If I'm not mistaken, next meeting will take place at 13/11 [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:07:28] Ok, then. The next meeting will take place on November, 10th, 2007 at 18:00 UTC here in #gentoo-kde. :-) I'll mail reminders again and poke you guys on IRC whereever I find you. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:04] Sorry, 10/11 [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:15] Philantrop, uhm, could we do that on another date [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:25] keytoaster: What's wrong with that date? :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:43] i just found out that my family visits my friend every second saturday of the month as well... [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:02] so we'll probably be having dinner at this time, just like today [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:14] so i will most likely never be able to attend the whole meeting [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:17] first saturday then? :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:22] fine for me [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:28] hehe [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:32] !herd kde [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:35] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:45] Shall we move our meetings to the first Saturday each month? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:48] first saturday is bug day, but fine with me ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:10:42] cryos|laptop, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, tgurr? First Saturday each month from November on? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:10:51] yes [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:07] Yes. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:17] fine to me [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:44] Anyone objects having a note on the project page about the "usual" meeting time? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:01] In case any interested party wants to follow the meetings [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:12] If I didn't misread genstef he doesn't object to it either so that would be 5:0 in favour of moving it. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:54] keytoaster: Could you add a note about the 1st Sat every month as our meeting time? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:13:28] yup [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:13:53] It's decided then: The next meeting will take place on November, 3rd, 2007 at 18:00 UTC here in #gentoo-kde. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:05] i'll do it as soon as i'm home [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:12] keytoaster: Sure, no worries. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:30] !herd kde [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:31] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:32] Anything else for tonight, guys? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:16] Can't recall anything else [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:37] Ok, thanks to all of your for attending. It's great this works and I really appreciate your feedback and help! [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:46] s/your/you :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:52] Philantrop: well, I wonder about a kde lead? I think we decided last time about it, but cannot find anything on the project page? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:03] genstef: We didn't decide about it. :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:30] genstef: I think we decided to *not* decide ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:41] We could decide about it, of course. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:46] Philantrop: some note like "we do not have a lead: decisions can be made by everyone but it usually it is a good idea to ask philantrop because he is around and knowledgable" [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:17:46] I would like to propose we select a lead for kde and I want to suggest Philantrop [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:17:46] anyways, not that important .. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:18:48] Does anyone want to open up the election process? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:18:58] jmbsvicetto: totally against it [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:05] we already decided on the matter :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:13] it just needs to be reflected on the project page [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:14] Against the lead or the election? ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:19] Ah, ok :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:38] you said what we decided [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:42] :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:51] genstef: We'll add the note as you suggested to the project page. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:56] keytoaster: Mind to add a note to the page? ;) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:11] Philantrop: We should also send a mail to -core or -dev announcing it [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:20] give me a complete text :) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:40] keytoaster: look a few lines a bove the long text. [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:21:00] keytoaster: "We do not have a formal lead: Decisions can be made by every herd member but it usually is a good idea to ask philantrop because he is around and knowledgable." [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:21:41] ah, k, thanks [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:17] Ok, final call: Anything else? :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:18] possibly close to the members box [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:34] keytoaster: Directly above the box, I'd say. :-) [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:24:28] I'm off then, ok? [Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:25:00] Ok, let's call this meeting closed! Thanks again! :-)