[Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:29] !herd kde [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:31] Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, ingmar, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, zlin [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:32] ping ^^^ [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:37] evening :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:38] pong [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:30:50] :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:31:14] ctennis == caleb [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:31:19] meh [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:31:24] ctennis: Yes, thanks, I know. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:31:32] just making sure everyone else did :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:32:05] bzzzzz [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:32:09] * gentoofan23 guessed [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:33:02] jmbsvicetto, masterdriverz, genstef around? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:33:11] * cryos|laptop had no clue... [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:33:22] Mode ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to deathwing00. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:33:28] Mode deathwing00 gives channel operator privileges to you. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:33:34] Mode deathwing00 gives masterdriverz the permission to talk. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:34:20] Ok, let's start guys! :-) First on the agenda is the bump to 3.5.9 which was somewhat, bumpy... ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:34:24] Mode deathwing00 gives ctennis the permission to talk. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:34:44] deathwing00: Thanks, but this will be open floor anyway. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:34:50] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:35:29] We have one major issue open: Split and monotlithic ebuilds. Split ebuilds depend hard on split dependencies and won't accept monolithic ebuilds. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:35:45] Some of us want to change that, some others don't. Your opinions? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:36:33] Well, doesn't it depend on the program? Some could do a || dep on split/monolithic and some can't, right? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:37:25] gentoofan23: No, not really as basically any monolithic ebuild would install what its split packages would. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:37:43] But we're talking about kde-base/* only here. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:10] My opinion is that we should opt to drop monolithic ebuilds for the following reasons: 1) Applying security fixes and patches to a split ebuild implies less development and maintenance effort, which in turn 2) implies less compilation on users and 3?) if I remember correctly KDE 4 was going to drop monolithic components (how's that by the way?) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:46] ++ [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:48] KDE 4 has had them dropped already [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:53] !bug 211116 [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:55] Philantrop: https://bugs.gentoo.org/211116 maj, P2, All, infoman1985@gmail.com->kde@gentoo.org, REOPENED, pending, kde-base/*-3.5.9 split packages can't be mixed with kde-base/*-3.5.9 monolithic packages. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:38:55] Philantrop: https://bugs.gentoo.org/211116 maj, P2, All, infoman1985@gmail.com->kde@gentoo.org, REOPENED, pending, kde-base/*-3.5.9 split packages can't be mixed with kde-base/*-3.5.9 monolithic packages. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:39:15] ^^^ That's the bug. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:39:29] but I disagree, dropping monolithic :3.5 ebuilds is a regression imho, besides, some slow arches only have those keyworded, and I see no reason to force a change upon them on a version of KDE that's getting EOL'ed soon [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:40:12] mixing splits and monolithic was never supported by us anyways, was it? possible yes.. sadly :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:40:15] I'm with Ingmar on this one [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:40:31] I'd like to keep it the way it is as only a few users even complained and most jsut switched to split ebuilds. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:40:49] * Philantrop scribbles two names into his little black book... ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:40:55] well, other users apparently care enough to attach a partial patch [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:03] we are not planning on offering monolithic ebuilds on KDE 4, are we? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:04] tgurr: it used to be possible through the eclasses. 3.5.9 uses EAPI=1 and thus doesn't use those eclass functions anymore... [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:11] deathwing00: Nope. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:17] pong [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:20] sorry, just got home [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:22] and it doesn't make sense for a user that kdebase + kdenetwork works, but kdebase + kopete doesn't [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:30] jmbsvicetto: No problem. Thanks for being here. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:36] I object as some boxes I maintain use monolithic and it'd be a huge pain to switch to split. I imagine many others would feel pain to [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:48] and that's a good point too [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:49] If we are to not provide it on KDE 4, we can let it be for now, I guess [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:41:55] converting = lots of useless work [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:42:15] gentoofan23: the problem is mixing. not all splits or all monos. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:42:34] make all splits block all monos and vice-versa [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:42:52] that's essentially what we have now [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:42:58] "you want a full mono, you got -meta" [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:43:06] I agree on that one [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:43:35] zlin: is it correctly implemented or are we missing something? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:43:46] Ok, let's try a slightly different approach - is anyone here willing to change what we have now? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:43:59] * Philantrop looks at Ingmar and zlin. *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:44:32] we can sort of vote if necessary [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:44:36] Guess that means that I'll do it [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:44:49] Sure you can vote, but unless you convince me *not* to do it, it's going to happen though :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:18] Join mikb has joined this channel (n=mikb@c211-31-30-148.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au). [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:19] Ingmar: I missed something in here... what is gonna happen? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:20] deathwing00: Well, I've already recorded opinions. At the moment, we're stuck at 2:2 but if Ingmar volunteers, why not. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:37] Philantrop: ok, got it [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:43] Quit mikb has left this server (Client Quit). [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:53] \o/ [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:45:54] deathwing00: What Ingmar wants to do is allowing users to mix 3.5.9 splits and monos again. I'm not too strongly against it. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:46:02] It's simply stupid to force monolithic users to switch [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:46:38] Ingmar: Well, considering that they will have to switch for KDE4 anyway, it wouldn't be too bad, I think, but since you volunteered... :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:46:43] arfie's patch shows what's we want to change.. might not be complete but you get the idea... [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:46:48] As I've told others before, I agree that the problems caused by mixing splits/monos is reason enough to have splits hard dep on split [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:47:11] But if Ingmar wants to support it, let him [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:47:27] jmbsvicetto: Well, a thing Ingmar brought up elsewhere, we might run into even more bug reports now. :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:47:39] Ingmar: If anyone else is willing to help you, you might want ot use an overlay to do that work [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:47:45] Philantrop: so who is 'yeah' and who is 'nay'? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:15] deathwing00: I'm a yeay/neah ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:20] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:30] * gentoofan23 isn't sure if he can vote, so he abstains. :). That's rather paradoxical though [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:36] deathwing00: I've recorded you as "nay" to mixing, me too, jmbsvicetto undecided. Ingmar and zlin "yay". :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:44] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:51] * cryos|laptop is nay... [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:48:54] jmbsvicetto: decide already [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:49:17] cryos|laptop: Just to be sure: "Nay" to mixing splits and monos in 3.5.9? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:49:23] Yep [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:49:23] Ingmar: If you do that work on an overlay, I can try to help on "a few" ebuilds - no promises though [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:49:45] cryos|laptop: Thanks, noted. Anything you could add to make Ingmar see the light? ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:50:16] Philantrop: Just that it really does not seem worth the effort, we looked at this in the beginning when splits were introduced.. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:50:26] deathwing00: My view is that allowing that is a good thing, but I understand if we decide otherwise. In any case, I can't commit that to the tree. I can try to help on an overlay though [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:50:48] carlo is clearly a "yay" too and it was supported till 3.5.8 [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:50:52] If he wants to do it I think he should try it but I wouldn't spend my time trying to fix that personally. It seems tough to get it right and I wonder where the pay off is. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:51:27] * cryos|laptop has been largely AFK in recent months though - desktop in a US customs area in New York still :-( [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:51:46] cryos|laptop: That's annyoing. :-( [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:04] Ok, se can we settle this by saying Ingmar may fix it if he wants? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:05] I have another argument that you could consider, if we add this for 3.5.9 and then it exists no longer to KDE 4, won't the users be forced into monolithic anyway? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:14] Yeah - delays, delays and more delays. Do have my Gentoo laptop working with KDE4 and 3.5.9 though. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:26] deathwing00: To split ebuilds, yes. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:37] cryos|laptop: At least something. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:48] Philantrop: yeah, that's what I meant [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:52] deathwing00: that's a different SLOT though so it doesn't matter all that much imo [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:52:59] Philantrop: I agree with that [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:53:15] Quit ZeRoX has left this server (Client Quit). [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:53:19] IIRC, the move forward is another point on this discussion [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:53:32] zlin: I understand, but it might be a needless effort, we could focus our efforts elsewhere, m¢ :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:53:39] Ok, final call for violent objections against Ingmar changing it. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:53:48] no veto here [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:54:07] deathwing00: that just means it's low priority.. :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:54:16] zlin: agreed [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:54:22] Ok, any other points that should be brought up for the past 3.5.9 version bump? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:55:10] Ok, topic 2: KDE 3.5.8 is stable now and will be in the 2008.0 release. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:55:10] I have a point(slightly related). Is there anything wrong with keeping the old stable around a little longer(3.5.7 specifically)? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:55:34] gentoofan23: Well, what's wrong with removing it after a newer one has gone stable? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:56:15] Join ZeRoX has joined this channel (n=zerox@nelug/developer/zer0x). [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:56:16] Well, we don't intend to support 5 versions of KDE [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:56:38] Philantrop: Stable users only had 19 days(iirc) to upgrade before 3.5.7 got booted. It bit me in that I needed to install a specific aspect of Kde and only 3.5.8 was available. So I had to upgrade all of kdelibs,base to get that new portion [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:57:11] given that we have a newer version which we know is way better, fixes tons of bugs and noone neither upstream nor downstream want to support the old version... [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:57:26] Ingmar: I'm not suggesting that, I'm suggesting keeping it around a bit longer. 19 days is a little short [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:57:30] I honestly don't see why we'd keep old stable versions around when never, better stable ebuilds are available [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:57:33] it isn't [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:57:42] gentoofan23: Well, yes, I would have thought two weeks were enough to update. It was even for my old Alpha workstation with 233 MHz. :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:58:16] eh, I was a little busy. but granted that, I concede my point I guess [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:58:22] gentoofan23: What would have been long enough for you? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:58:35] (Under normal circumstances.) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:58:41] Philantrop: This falls down to the discussion between maintainers/ats about whether old working versions shold be kept around or not [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:58:55] Philantrop: maybe 45 days? [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:07] gentoofan23: How about 30? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:15] * Philantrop emulates a bazaar. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:19] Philantrop: even that'd be ok I guess [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:19] 30 sounds more reasonable to me [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:25] Join NeddySeagoon has joined this channel (n=NeddySea@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon). [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:25] Mode ChanServ gives NeddySeagoon the permission to talk. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:30] Philantrop: I agree that for maintainers it makes sense to kick old versions - in particular for a project with as many ebuilds as kde [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:30] 19 is rather unreasonable to me. [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:41] yay to 30 days by me then [Do Mär 6 2008] [20:59:54] jmbsvicetto: That's why we did it, indeed. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:08] hey, Kubuntu is still supporting a KDE from 3 years ago :-P [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:08] And Ingmar stole all those commits from me! ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:19] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:38] gentoofan23: 30 days are ok then? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:40] So next time Philantrop will be so pressed to get thsoe commits, it won't even be 19 days :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:00:57] Philantrop: yeah, it should be. Of course, I don't use mips :p [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:01:21] gentoofan23: It doesn't matter anymore. mips has gone the unstable road [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:01:35] jmbsvicetto: Oh yes, that is true [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:01:37] Ok, anything else on the bump or 3.5.8 in the upcoming release? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:01:49] gentoofan23: From now on, mips needs to keyword a version at least until everyone marks it stable [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:00] they already did [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:03] monolithic 3.5.9 [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:10] Ingmar: ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:11] * Philantrop sobs [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:21] * Philantrop sees his ebuilds tainted. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:30] Philantrop: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:02:31] or he didn't, but he's going to, any time soon :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:03:01] Ok, anything else on the bump or 3.5.8 in the upcoming release? (Final call) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:03:31] Great. gentoofan23 already brought up topic 3 - Removal of KDE < 3.5.8 from the tree. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:04:02] Ingmar kindly killed 3.5.5 to 3.5.7. So we don't have to worry about those anymore. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:04:05] uh, I swear I didn't see that on the agenda. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:04:08] * gentoofan23 hides [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:04:09] so that's done. next! :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:05:04] Well, I guess since zlin has a hot date with a rubber doll, we should move on to topic 4 - State of KDE4 in the tree. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:05:24] Oo [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:05:34] Ingmar, zlin: Let's hear - what's in the tree, when's 4.0.2 going in? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:05:54] well, as such the ebuilds in the tree are in a pretty good state. the deps need to be updated for compatibility with the newly introduced split qt-4.4 ebuilds and it needs to be bumped to 4.0.2 (only kdebase and games have been bumped thus far)... [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:05:54] Ingmar, zlin: And: What's the state of KDE 4.0.2 by your findings? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:07] Well, some time this weekend, so far we've been busy with the newer Qt [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:40] And the two of you did a great job with Qt, I'd say. :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:43] honestly I haven't had a lot of time to use 4.0.2 yet.. but it'll come in the following days. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:48] Ingmar / zlin: Can I start working on kdenetwork? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:55] jmbsvicetto: certainly [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:06:58] jmbsvicetto: Yes, please :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:01] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:07] Do you want me to look at anything else? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:14] any help with bumping it will be appreciated [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:46] eh, I'd help but amd64 AT's need a stable system. :( [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:46] Right, and that goes for bug reports too :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:07:51] I've updated my amd64 and x86 to 4.0.2 during the night, so I can start working on kdenetwork after the meeting [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:08:11] maybe I'll be able to do it, but don't expect much :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:08:27] s/do/help/ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:08:31] As for zlin's plea for help: Anyone who wants to help should simply mail me his ssh public key. Interested users who can show they're able and willing to work on ebuilds are *explicitly* invited, too. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:09:29] The bump to 4.0.2 is taking place in a git overlay again to allow for non-ebuild devs to participate, too, and it's a great way to become a full dev as Ingmar and zlin can verify. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:09:48] :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:09:56] and as we want berniyh to do too! :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:10:17] poor ignorants... they don't know it yet... *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:10:22] well, I might be able to help in places. I [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:10:29] I'll e-mail my key [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:10:46] gentoofan23: Ok, thanks, we'll work out the details later. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:11:14] Ok, anything else about KDE4 for now? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:03] just a question, what's the policy for things from playground/ going into gentoo-x86? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:26] various plasmoids come to mind. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:27] we can discuss that later [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:29] It'd be wrong [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:39] playground is what upstream doesn't consider release worthy [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:12:45] alright. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:12] gentoofan23: We could have it in the overlay, though. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:14] Meaning that it may work, but they won't support it [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:18] definitely [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:26] we already have a lot of it in the overlay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:29] Ok. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:40] Ingmar: They don't really support the other stuff either - see KDE 4.0.0. ;-> [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:13:56] do we ? which cpv ? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:14:02] They just release it. Like Pandora did. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:14:05] Pfft, stop being a pansy and use 4.0.2 damnit [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:14:36] Ok, anything else about KDE4 for now? (Final call.) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:14:41] orzelf: 6-8 packages... [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:15:01] orzelf: Please ask about that in #genkdesvn. The guys there will help you. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:15:05] Most of the extragear things is really few work to package it btw [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:15:59] oh, I might be confusing extragear and playground. maybe it's only a couple of packages then. ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:16:44] Ok, topic 5 - Herd Testers: Current state and next steps. jmbsvicetto, you're the one in charge with respect to that. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:17:17] Well, I haven't done much yet. With the elections and a few other things, I was distracted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:17:31] However, the only person that as contacted me about HT was gentoofan23 [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:17:40] jmbsvicetto: Yes, I know. You corrupted Neddy and four others. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:17:47] Philantrop: Has anyone else talked with you about it? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:17:57] Did you get berniyh's mail? :p [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:05] jmbsvicetto: No, not so far. What we should [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:17] jmbsvicetto: yeah, I was accepted by Philantrop as well. Haven't been doing much though [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:17] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:23] berniyh: Did you sent me an email? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:27] Ingmar: mail? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:33] jmbsvicetto: not that i know of ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:35] * do is flesh things a bit out, I think so that people know what we'd like to see done. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:38] *none [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:18:52] berniyh: ufff! :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:19:01] jmbsvicetto: Don't worry, berniyh is worse a slacker than you are. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:19:11] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:19:20] jmbsvicetto: maybe he meant that viagra thing? *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:19:32] Philantrop, zlin : ok ,thx. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:19:55] Philantrop: Agreed. We might also want to announce again that we're open for HTs and that people can help that way [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:10] I can announce that on GMN [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:11] Philantrop: We might want to push something to gmn and gentoo-pr [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:18] shall I take note? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:21] berniyh: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:26] jmbsvicetto: Yes, good idea. We'll come to that in topic 8 - misc. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:32] deathwing00: Yes, please. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:42] I can also "abuse" the forums for that ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:44] maybe have dberkholz put something on the front page? (as in not gmn) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:47] Philantrop: noted :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:20:53] deathwing00: yes, please [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:04] deathwing00, jmbsvicetto: Can you come up with a good text together? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:04] gentoofan23: that's gentoo-pr ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:11] Philantrop: sure thing [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:16] Philantrop: I'll work with deathwing00 [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:18] jmbsvicetto: oh, k [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:26] jmbsvicetto: right after the meeting would be a good timing for me [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:46] jmbsvicetto, deathwing00: Thanks, great! Once you're done, please mail it to kde@ so that we all can review it. Agreed? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:57] Philantrop: agreed [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:21:58] deathwing00: If you could give me 30 minutes to have dinner, my stoamach would thank you ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:22:07] jmbsvicetto: no problem [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:22:07] Philantrop: sure [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:22:23] Philantrop: next ? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:22:29] Thanks! Anything else on HTs? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:22:50] other than the fact that I have no idea what to do, no ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:07] gentoofan23: jmbsvicetto and deathwing00 will get you up to speed. *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:11] Philantrop: I don't think so. Not at this moment, at least [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:18] Philantrop: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:34] Ok, anything else on HTs? (Final call.) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:54] Ok, let's move on to topic 6: [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:56] 6. Lead election: [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:56] During recent recruitments, DevRel informed us that the KDE project should have [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:56] a lead as per GLEP39. Some herd members and other devs contacted Philantrop [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:23:56] about it, too, and requested an election. A simple vote on IRC should be held. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:24:01] jmbsvicetto: I have to do forums threads as well btw [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:24:09] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:24:35] Philantrop: I think it's about time we elect some leads [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:25:14] jmbsvicetto: Yes, people asked me about that. As most of you know or can imagine, I volunteer. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:25:22] Philantrop: That can help, by letting other people know who to talk to [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:25:37] Philantrop: O'rly? ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:25:42] haha [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:25:51] I second your nomination [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:02] I even vote for Philantrop :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:12] Philantrop++ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:13] Philantrop: I sugest we have 2 leads [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:14] Same ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:27] jmbsvicetto: political power corrupting you? ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:49] Philantrop: Whether we want an operation and a strategic lead or just a lead and sub-lead, it can help having a failsafe contact [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:50] jmbsvicetto: why? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:26:50] I think jmbsvicetto means lead + sublead, as in former times [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:27:03] gentoofan23: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:27:25] zlin: For the failsafe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:27:27] Philantrop: I think we concluded that we didn't want to split dutties (op + start), right? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:27:40] I don't think we need more than one lead, tbh [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:27:52] 'dutties (op + start)'? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:04] op + strat* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:10] Some of us are more than active enough on irc, that there's always someone quick enough to answer KDE questions etc [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:14] actually it's operation and technical [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:14] Ingmar: What? You just want a lead and an HT lead? :o ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:16] ahh, and duties. ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:34] zlin: my bad :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:28:58] I propose to vote if we want to have a sublead first, then vote for candidates [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:29:03] I'm with Ingmar on this - the students among us are around anyway. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:29:45] I'm with Ingmar on this too. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:29:46] zlin: The principle behind the strategic + operational lead, was to have someone concerned with the big picture and another person taking care of the day-to-day [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:14] jmbsvicetto: We all take care of day-to-day stuff. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:16] Yes, and my point is that day-to-day is more than taken care of [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:23] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:35] If you're happy with just a lead, then I accept that [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:39] Let's vote on the sub-lead, I'd say. Yay/Nay, please. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:45] not that we can't improve in that, but I don't see a problem, and I don't see your suggestion as a solution ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:48] Nay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:49] I've already seconded a nomination ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:49] Yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:51] * Philantrop votes nay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:30:54] Nay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:02] Yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:17] * cryos|laptop abstains [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:17] 2 Yay - 3 Nay ? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:22] ctennis: ^^ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:30] masterdriverz: ^^ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:31] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:34] * gentoofan23 isn't sure if he can vote... [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:42] You can, if you say nay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:43] gentoofan23: go on [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:47] Ingmar: lol [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:31:54] nay then [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:32:02] haha [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:32:16] I guess, nay passes then [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:32:21] honestly, that *was* my opinion :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:32:43] :p [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:02] so, do we want Philantrop as lead? Yay/Nay? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:04] Yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:05] yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:09] Yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:10] yay above too [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:12] yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:13] yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:15] yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:24] Philantrop: To do it the right way, we should open a nomination period and then have a voting period [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:39] why are we even voting if there is only one nominee? *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:53] ok, if anyone feels comfortable with that, Yay [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:33:58] gentoofan23: well, if over 50% goes nay, then we have to elect someone else [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:34:08] If there're any other nominees, I'd suggest them to stand up :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:34:20] Else Idon't see the point of an election, waste of time :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:34:29] oh, I guess I was likening it to a political election. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:34:29] Ingmar: tell devrel [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:35:07] Philantrop: the sublead thing is 3y - 4n [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:35:07] So, other candidates? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:35:11] this isn't a political election. we just need the whole team to be comfortable with the chosen lead [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:35:31] zlin: right :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:35:54] Philantrop: This is another good reason to get gmn and gentoo-pr [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:05] ? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:17] Philantrop: Let people know about our new lead and remind them of kde HTs [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:29] Philantrop: ^ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:35] bah, deathwing00 ^ [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:35] jmbsvicetto: Yes, a sec. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:37] Philantrop: u sure you don't want jmbsvicetto as your sublead? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:46] jmbsvicetto: noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:36:51] deathwing00: Thanks, but I'm not interested [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:37:03] deathwing00: If we were to have a sub-lead, I had another in mind [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:37:25] deathwing00: Well, let's keep things simple - everyone here can still make decisions so you're all sub-leads, IMHO. :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:37:35] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:17] For verification: sublead vote: 3 "yays", 3 "nays", one abstention, right? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:19] Philantrop: can you give me the vote counts on sublead y/n/a and lead election y/n/a? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:23] wheeeeeeeee! I'm one of the 10+ gentoo-kde executive vps^D^D^Dsub-leads ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:24] dooooooork [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:37] jeeves: :P [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:38:53] lead election: 7 yays, no nays, no abstention. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:39:04] noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:39:17] sublead is a deadlock then? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:39:44] let's make it a 3 yays and 4 nays then :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:40:04] noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:40:08] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:40:15] tgurr: I need your vote on Philantrop :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:40:32] yay for this wulf thing ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:40:42] done with that [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:02] Philantrop: you have been elected as KDE lead, my congratulations [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:13] Philantrop: copy-paste your speech here [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:14] Thanks, guys. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:17] * deathwing00 grins [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:44] I have no speech and I don't want to waste your time so just let me thank my grand-parents, my parents, my wife, my children, my pet... ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:54] ;-)) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:41:58] next issue [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:10] Topic 7 - Review of the project page. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:28] Apart from the lead thing - what do we need to update=? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:37] kde-pr could take care of it if you want [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:40] lots of kde 3.5.7 stuff. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:47] stable version + testing version and status of kde4 [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:42:52] I have a cvs checkout here, I could update things to a semi-sane state [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:43:14] That'd be nice [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:43:16] kde-pr? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:43:36] kde-pr: just invented subproject [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:43:47] gentoofan23, deathwing00: How about the two of you do it together? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:43:49] who volunteered? :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:12] yeah, I am already asuming these duties [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:15] deathwing00: that means you are an indirect sublead :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:24] gentoofan23: you mean a monkey [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:40] hehe [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:44] deathwing00: well, the two can be related :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:44:55] * cryos|laptop has to go - duty calls [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:00] Congrats Philantrop :D [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:02] gentoofan23, deathwing00: Can I take that for a "yes"? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:07] cryos|laptop: laters :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:12] cryos|laptop: Thanks and thanks for having been here! [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:15] Philantrop: sure. ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:33] Philantrop: affirmative, I'll take care of everything that needs to be spread to the public opinion everyone likes, with the help of everyone who likes [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:46] gentoofan23, deathwing00: Can you do it till the next meeting (next month)? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:45:51] cryos|laptop: thank you for sparing your time :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:18] Philantrop: when is the next meeting? tomorrow? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:28] deathwing00: next month. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:32] Philantrop: probably. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:38] I already am editing a few things. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:49] will do [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:46:55] I'll send any patches to kde@ for review [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:47:04] Philantrop: What are we missing? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:47:21] gentoofan23, deathwing00: Ok, thanks! :-) And, yes, please, mail it to kde@. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:47:25] Philantrop: I'm being poked to have dinner [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:47:44] jmbsvicetto: Missing? And poked by whom? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:47:46] jmbsvicetto: meet you here in 35 minutes [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:04] Philantrop: What other points? I'm at my parents house [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:14] gentoofan23: can we have talk about it after the meeting? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:18] jmbsvicetto: Misc and next meeting date. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:29] deathwing00: uh, maybe. I might have to go after the meeting though [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:32] jmbsvicetto: Nothing very special, I think. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:37] ok [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:42] Quit orzelf has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:48:51] I'll try to poke in a few minutes [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:49:25] deathwing00, gentoofan23: 3, 4, 8, 9 of kde.gentoo.org need to updated, I think. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:49:43] Philantrop: noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:49:46] what do you mean by all those numbers? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:49:54] gentoofan23: The headlines. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:50:01] oh, noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:50:16] Ok, anything else about the project page? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:50:31] and of course we are here if you need additional info to write it... :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:51:00] just a reminder to someone with cvs access to update proj/en/desktop/ with Philantrop as the Lead of the KDE project [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:51:12] should be a one-liner [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:51:20] zlin: noted, thanks! [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:51:42] Anything else about the project page? (Final call.) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:51:56] zlin: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:52:11] Topic 8 - Miscellaneous [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:52:14] gentoofan23: write a paragraph, then it looks like it is important ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:52:33] Anyone with anything to bring up? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:53:18] Ok, I have one point - as he hinted at earlier, deathwing00 kindly volunteered to help with spreading the news about the Gentoo KDE project. I'd like to take up this offer. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:53:25] oh [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:53:25] oh, what about #5 in index.xml? what is the status on monthly meetings? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:53:28] let me interrupt [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:01] Philantrop: gentoofan23 made me notice that we could create a new section about meetings, with dates, sumary and logs [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:02] gentoofan23: We'll resume that. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:33] kde herd meeting? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:33] summary* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:33] deathwing00: Yes, we should updated section 5. I'd like to have monthly meetings again. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:34] ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:40] genstef: Welcome! :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:41] right. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:54:45] hi genstef [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:04] Philantrop: noted :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:15] Anything else for topic 8 - Miscellaneous? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:25] one thing to note is that the first saturday of every month is Bugday, not sure if that will make any conflicts. [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:34] bugday is dead [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:47] eroyf: don't blame me plz :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:52] not your fault [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:58] gentoofan23: Oh, right, most people turned out to have no time during the weekend. What's best for everyone here? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:55:59] more my fault [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:56:13] Philantrop: why not like today? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:56:16] Is Thursday good for everyone? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:56:23] Well, it is probably best for me [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:56:29] Sundays are not very good [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:56:41] Thursday afternoons are good, usually [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:57:14] I like Thursdays, too. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:57:38] thursday is great [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:57:49] Anyone *against* (!) choosing Thursday? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:57:53] I prefer thursday over friday at least [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:58:13] * Philantrop hums "It's just another manic Thursday"... ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:58:18] anyone for Mondays? *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:58:33] Thursday it is. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:58:44] PR: noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:58:52] Second one, I'd say. Objections? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:59:07] first thursday of every month [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:59:31] Ok, first. Objections? [Do Mär 6 2008] [21:59:42] Perfect. *g* Anything else for topic 8 - Miscellaneous? [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:07] can we go now? there's so much to do... *g* [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:12] btw, I am at Cebit tomorrow :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:17] Join zsz has joined this channel (n=zsz@sa-184-64.saturn.infonet.ee). [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:18] Ok, guys, final topic - Date of the next meeting and closing. [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:19] well, I'm out, later everyone [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:19] eh on the weekend [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:21] second thursday is council meetings. not sure if that's a pro or a con though. :> [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:24] Congrats, Philantrop [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:40] zlin: Oh, right. Then it's really first. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:52] yes [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:00:57] gentoofan23: goodbye :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:04] Last topic: Date of the next meeting and closing. [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:11] Quit gentoofan23 has left this server (Client Quit). [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:16] April, 3rd, 2008. [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:30] * zlin acks [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:33] noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:43] :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:44] Anything else, guys? :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:50] Topic Ingmar sets the channel topic to "KDE 4.0 guide: http://tinyurl.com/27tbt5 | KDE herd meeting (april 3rd, 2008, 19:30 UTC, here). Agenda: http://tinyurl.com/2hhsvc | Problems upgrading to stable KDE 3.5.8? http://tinyurl.com/yqk4le | http://dev.gentoo.org/~masterdriverz/kde-help.txt | KDE Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/3bpdlv | If we're too quiet try #kde | KDE4 live ebuilds? -> "kde" overlay and #genkdesvn. | KDE 4 doesn't work with qt-4.4 *yet*". [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:01:51] yes. [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:02:05] you missed to say that you all are doing a great job. [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:02:26] Hats off to the qt4 beta1 folks [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:02:38] No, that's closing and that's what I'm doing now: Thanks for all your great work, guys! It's a great pleasure to work with you! :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:00] ctennis: you mean "heads off" ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:08] that too! [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:33] Quit mark_alec has left this server ("Konversation terminated!"). [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:35] ctennis: And it's nice to have one of the grumpy old men back on IRC. ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:47] :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:03:58] heh [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:07] I wish I had more time to play [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:28] but it seems like there's no problem in picking up my slack [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:34] :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:34] Ok, guys, this meeting is now officially closed! :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:46] * deathwing00 cheers at the new lead [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:56] ctennis: with qt-4.4? [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:57] ctennis: :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:04:58] ctennis: Oh, you should have seen Ingmar and zlin swear about Qt's build system sometimes... ;-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:05:11] * berniyh nods [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:05:13] we're still swearing.. ;) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:05:23] I'll mail the log and summary to kde@. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:05:46] Philantrop: I'll reuse it :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:06:04] deathwing00: That was my dark intention. :-) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:06:21] :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:07:04] okay, zlin forced me to say that I vote for philantrop and against a sub-lead [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:07:37] LOL [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:07:37] err [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:07:44] s/.*I vote/I vote/ [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:07:52] keytoaster: noted [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:09:35] ehrm, when will the 4.0.2 ebuilds be in portage ? [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:09:44] Philantrop: I'll post the most interesting things on our forums btw :) [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:09:49] * brot ducks [Do Mär 6 2008] [22:10:09] deathwing00: Thanks! :-) Please let me know the link. :-)