Note: times are UTC+2 [20:59.03] *** Topic is 'Gentoo KDE | 18.6. @ 19:00 UTC = Meeting [http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0906meeting_topics.txt] | KDE 4 guide: http://tinyurl.com/4n47v4 | p.keywords: http://xrl.us/kdekeyw | Overlays: kde-testing, qting-edge | Want to help? http://tinyurl.com/gktodo | Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/kdebugs1 http://xrl.us/qtbugs | Useful links: http://userbase.kde.org/ http://ktown.kde.org/~dirk/dashboard | Want to test KDE4 on a kvm? http://tinyurl.com/by7tv3 ' [20:59.03] *** Set by scarabeus on Thu Jun 18 20:40:41 [20:59.04] but if you listen, we'll have to kill you [20:59.07] it's custom the ops get to kick everyone except club members out when the meeting starts [20:59.08] :P [20:59.11] be ready.. [20:59.33] the meeting starts with a customery kick-banning [20:59.54] *** BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:00.01] and when the channel's empty, the discussion can begin [21:00.35] meeting starts ;] [21:00.39] !herd kde [21:00.41] (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr [21:00.42] !herd qt [21:00.42] scarabeus: (qt) carlo, hwoarang, tampakrap, yngwin [21:00.44] rollcall plz [21:00.48] present [21:01.16] tampakrap will be one hour late so his topic is last on the list (FTR) [21:01.32] he might not make it [21:01.35] carlo is absent as usual [21:01.36] called me 3 hours ago [21:01.41] hi btw [21:02.06] and hi from here :) [21:02.13] haavardw: ping [21:02.17] hi hwoarang, yngwin, ayoy [21:02.20] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v ABCD [21:02.22] hwoarang: pong, I'm here -) [21:02.25] goodie [21:02.33] your recruits? ;] [21:02.34] yngwin: ps, remember to set him up on qting-edge [21:02.34] and hi haavardw [21:02.41] hi all [21:02.46] i wander one thing [21:02.50] where the ... is the rest [21:02.58] howdy [21:03.01] aparently only qt is present [21:03.08] heh [21:03.21] ok, mask kde for removal; done [21:03.26] :D [21:03.27] *** BCMM (n=bcmm@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Remote closed the connection) [21:03.29] you failed [21:03.29] LOL [21:03.31] :p [21:03.37] we'll rule the world [21:03.43] meeting's over [21:03.43] bonsaikitten: still arround i assume ;] [21:03.51] actually i'm on kde 4.2.4 presently [21:03.57] woooooooooow [21:04.03] big step [21:04.05] sabayon [21:04.07] * alexxy here [21:04.08] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Sput [21:04.22] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v ayoy [21:04.24] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v lxnay|two [21:04.29] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v haavardw [21:04.42] *** hwoarang sets mode: +v Pesa [21:04.43] *** yngwin sets mode: +v hwoarang [21:04.51] ;) [21:05.04] * scarabeus gives them 5 minutes, then he will be seriously unhappy [21:05.11] lol [21:05.41] who do we miss? [21:05.43] jorge? [21:05.46] tampakrap_: is off [21:05.51] bonsaikitten: slacking [21:05.54] !herd kde [21:05.56] yngwin: (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr [21:05.57] so pretty much everybody is here [21:05.58] I almost forgot [21:06.03] dagger [21:06.05] reavertm: hello [21:06.11] hi scarabeus [21:07.03] hwoarang: well specialy when we vote on first topic it would be damn nice to have majority of kde devs here [21:07.17] where is the agenda [21:07.21] topic [21:07.27] so for those who hadnt noticed yet, we have two new qt recruits present: ayoy and haavardw [21:07.36] *** Skim[ihz] (n=skim@skim.static.corbina.ru) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:07.40] yngwin: voice them [21:07.50] hwoarang already did [21:07.51] they are voiced [21:07.56] ah [21:07.57] :] [21:07.58] of course [21:07.59] didnt look :] [21:08.00] * haavardw can talk [21:08.04] bla bla [21:08.10] ayoy, haavardw: then welcome guys :] [21:08.17] thank you! [21:08.20] :) [21:08.24] thanks -) [21:08.33] http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-desktop/msg_1ef792a71171a444d60ecb870a27e9f3.xml <- agenda [21:08.41] http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0906meeting_topics.txt [21:08.45] just for the record [21:09.02] yes [21:09.09] scarabeus: we can change the topics order [21:09.21] hwoarang: yes we can [21:09.23] until kde devs are here [21:09.34] but kde3 is last or at least until tampakrap show up [21:09.35] we can start with qt topics if you like [21:09.49] ok scarabeus . but as I said he mgiht not make it [21:09.49] :/ [21:10.04] then wired will be his replacement [21:10.08] sweet [21:10.11] where is he [21:10.11] he hopefully tracked him [21:10.17] wired: stupid boy [21:10.29] ping pong [21:10.31] i foresee that they blame the late announcement :p [21:10.37] im here [21:10.39] excuses [21:10.41] for some weird reason [21:10.43] :p [21:10.53] ok shall we start with qt stuff then? [21:11.11] ok lets start with the qt3 apps first [21:11.14] I'm fine with this [21:11.18] and ftr i am really not happy [21:11.34] slackers [21:11.38] ok what about the qt3 apps? [21:11.49] btw, who's going to vote on kdeprefix? [21:11.55] kde project devs [21:11.58] i guess [21:11.59] reavertm: devs, including you [21:12.09] * alexxy [21:12.13] reavertm: because you are one of few who can work on it [21:12.30] * alexxy gonna vote for masking it [21:12.33] well, last time it was not the case :P [21:12.36] hwoarang: so lets start with second topic now [21:12.42] ok [21:12.53] yngwin: ping pong [21:13.09] kde3 is scheduled to be removed early next year, right? [21:13.15] yes [21:13.20] to some special overaly [21:13.25] so lets create one common overlay [21:13.26] and kde3 is the biggest consumer of qt3 [21:13.29] kde3 and qt3 crap [21:13.36] instead of just ripping it off [21:13.40] i agree [21:13.44] and users can maintain themselves if they want [21:13.44] fine by me [21:13.48] otherwise we can throw it [21:13.59] I wouldn't mind creating special overlay for qt4 and kde4 crap :P - to keep them away from main tree "{ [21:14.11] oooh flamebite [21:14.13] what about kde3/qt3 apps not yet ported to kde4/qt4? [21:14.14] ok whom would update the kde team page reffering to the policy [21:14.24] spatz: problematic, but hell for maintaining [21:14.25] spatz: we dont care :) [21:14.34] yngwin: hwoarang ^ [21:14.38] the update... :] [21:14.40] but some are widely used, like k3b [21:14.42] scarabeus: do we need to update it? [21:14.47] for what [21:14.58] by users [21:15.06] ping :) [21:15.08] some of them fail to build with libpcre[-static-libs] [21:15.09] i would like to propose that we officially discourage further usage of qt3: dont introduce new qt3 based apps, prefer qt4 over qt3 [21:15.11] i hope k3b will see a stable release before the end of this year [21:15.12] hwoarang: just that other knows [21:15.17] spatz: k3b has already a kde4 version [21:15.19] _alpha [21:15.28] yngwin: good idea [21:15.32] yngwin: +1 [21:15.37] spatz: in 6 months ;] [21:15.49] tanderson: ? [21:15.57] i think qt3 useflag is enabled by desktop profile? that should be removed [21:16.18] also good idea, but since when [21:16.21] Any objections to me patching a kde 3 ebuild with fixes for the .desktop file ? [21:16.27] tanderson: enjoy [21:16.28] or JustDoIt ? :) [21:16.37] tanderson: open kde.gentoo.org [21:16.42] tanderson: search for CODE file [21:16.45] tanderson: read it [21:16.48] tanderson: answer is there [21:16.59] * bonsaikitten present [21:17.03] yngwin: aka when we switch the discouraging of qt3 useflag [21:17.17] it can be even now but apps will be gone in the feb of 2010 [21:17.21] i'd say immediately [21:17.33] still we need to make the transission smooth [21:17.38] scarabeus: aah ok [21:17.40] i failed on spelling [21:17.41] hmmm [21:17.51] scarabeus: oh, did I interrupt your meeting? [21:17.52] so as yngwin said , immediately [21:17.57] tanderson: smart boy [21:18.03] *** dipogon (n=dipogon@84.249.84.164) Quit (Remote closed the connection) [21:18.09] tanderson: ;] [21:18.12] qt3 is enabled in /usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/make.defaults [21:18.13] scarabeus: I'm sorry, I'd have taken it to a query if I had known [21:18.22] tanderson: no prob :] [21:18.56] hwoarang: ok since you two agree just do it, i wrote it in summary :] [21:19.02] ok [21:19.09] afaik profile changes need announcement/discussion on dev ml, so i'll draft up something [21:19.18] thanks yngwin [21:19.34] it is strange, but I can't add my own language in system settings... l10n is installed, kde installed without "kdeprefix", some software is translated, but I still can't add my own language.... ;( [21:19.40] Skim[ihz]: meeting time [21:19.58] * scarabeus consider +m ;] [21:20.03] -_- [21:20.07] we can voice pple if they query us [21:20.09] sorry [21:20.10] stop considering [21:20.17] just do it already [21:20.18] *** scarabeus sets mode: +m [21:20.20] :D [21:20.22] should be done [21:20.25] ok [21:20.33] end of story [21:20.44] scarabeus: moving forward? [21:20.48] okey [21:20.51] kde4 stabilization? [21:21.01] bonsaikitten: patrick since you are here, can we talk about the pykde? [21:21.10] we can [21:21.21] *** gengor (n=gengor@gentoo/developer/gengor) has left [21:21.41] you agreed to deprecate qt3 as of now, so i assume discussion on moving current packages to an overlay will be postponed? [21:21.42] it is 5th topic for those whom wonder [21:21.50] scarabeus: voice tanderson [21:21.52] spatz: yes [21:21.54] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v tanderson [21:22.32] bonsaikitten: ok did you find any solution about the collisions in site-packages? [21:22.42] not yet, but I haven't spent much time on it [21:22.54] unprefixing of pykde is fine with us, but the issue is also in plasma-workspace now [21:22.58] or plasma-addons not sure now [21:23.11] either we allow to use a newer pykde with an older slotted kde (does that work?) [21:23.20] (with python USE flag only) [21:23.24] or we try to move the pykde package to versioned directories [21:23.36] it's all depending on kdeprefix status [21:23.37] but then packages trying to use it will most likely need some patching [21:23.59] bonsaikitten: cant we somehow eselect correct site modules for what kde we start [21:24.01] (no kdeprefix - no pytkde issue) [21:24.20] *** pgega (n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit) [21:24.22] scarabeus: potentially yes, but might be very fragile [21:24.34] eselect is not the answer here [21:24.43] and as reaver say, if we agree we can just mask kdeprefix flag, which will be voted [21:24.50] because without this the kde cant be stabled [21:24.55] the collision would piss users [21:24.56] anyway - either unslot or eselect - pykde4-9999 is likely to not work very well with kdelibs-4.2 [21:24.57] someone still might want to run amarok1 in kde4 for example [21:25.22] *** haavardw (n=haavardw@cm-84.208.110.202.getinternet.no) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [21:25.23] right, so we need versioned dirs in site-packages [21:25.31] how many packages depend on pykde ? [21:25.40] everything in kde with use python [21:25.49] yngwin: I don't see it relevant (amarok1) [21:25.58] (as it uses kdelibs3) [21:26.06] and pykde3 [21:26.07] I'm aware of marble plasma-workspace [21:26.10] any others? [21:26.10] *** haavardw (n=haavardw@cm-84.208.110.202.getinternet.no) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:26.26] printing stuff [21:26.30] (upcoming in 4.3) [21:26.50] + guidance-power-manager (extragear) [21:27.01] ok, tolerable amount to patch [21:27.19] *** pgega (n=pgega@77-99-66-168.cable.ubr01.tonb.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:27.29] I don't worry about API differences here, rather ABI issues [21:27.34] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v haavardw [21:28.08] reavertm: the only thing that will suffer is the detection by other packages afaict, so we will have to frickel them to accept the changes [21:28.22] besides nobody really tried yet mixing new pykde4 with 'old' apps (and we're preventing it so far) [21:28.22] so if we have to tweak 5 packages that's an acceptable amount of work [21:28.30] *** Phlogi_ (n=quassel@236-60.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [21:29.12] (I guess we don't plan to support older pykde4 with newer apps - so just SLOT deps would be dropped if any) [21:29.18] *** bertodsera (n=quasseul@95.133.248.44) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:29.45] anyone willing to help? [21:29.50] maybe you should test backwards compatibility of newer pykde4 then, as that would prevent the need for patching [21:29.56] I did it partially in local branch [21:30.43] Hi [21:30.47] hey boss [21:30.49] I'm sorry for being late [21:31.16] yngwin: right, that will be annoying to test :) [21:31.27] bonsaikitten: so you and reaver will do it [21:31.43] *** Phlogi (n=quassel@10-175.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:31.49] ? [21:31.52] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Phlogi [21:31.59] *sigh* :) [21:32.06] I'll try to have a look on the weekend [21:32.07] i take it as yes :] [21:32.44] ok [21:32.55] anything else to this topic? [21:33.07] jmbsvicetto: o hi, i missed ya ;] [21:34.09] ok, since there wont be more devs here around and since alexxy has pretty late hour i would like to go with his kdeprefix stuff [21:34.12] alexxy: please [21:34.22] the topic Solving the final question about kdeprefix. [21:34.45] well [21:35.34] One thing: I as a amd64 person won't let kde4 go stable on my architecture with kdeprefix available to my users [21:35.49] :) [21:36.01] he he =) [21:36.03] It causes far too many problems [21:36.08] tanderson: don't make us go behind your back ;) [21:36.18] you even don't know about one problem I know of :P [21:36.20] so kdeprefix will cause many headache to users [21:36.27] it does already [21:36.28] bonsaikitten: to whom? [21:36.29] so lets mask it! [21:36.29] (qt4 bug related to plugin loader) [21:36.29] =) [21:36.35] also the python issue [21:36.42] plugin loader i personaly HATE [21:36.49] tanderson: well, let me put it this way - you're not the only one on amd64 with a commit access ;) [21:37.01] bonsaikitten: if we will mask it [21:37.12] user can still unmask it [21:37.17] people who want to use still can do it after unmasking [21:37.19] and we already state it deemed evil [21:37.20] bonsaikitten: I think I represent the others on my team [21:38.01] :] [21:38.03] scarabeus: I noticed in the back log ;) [21:38.13] ok i think we should vote on it [21:38.19] and if the vote will be keep unmasked [21:38.30] the voting devs must promise to work on the issues with +kdeprefix [21:38.34] aka they will focus on them [21:38.42] not that I with -kdeprefix would fix them [21:38.51] objections? [21:39.06] tanderson: You're forgetting that you can even mask a use flag in a profile ;) [21:39.20] tanderson: so you could always stable kde4 *without* kdeprefix [21:39.34] jmbsvicetto: I am aware of that [21:39.37] tanderson: and we're not voting on removing kdeprefix - but masking in profiles [21:39.51] (as most of devs will unmask it anyway) [21:39.51] why not just remove it? [21:40.01] I never mentioned removing kdeprefix! I mentioned "being available to my users" [21:40.04] because we use live and stable right now [21:40.04] :) [21:40.10] yngwin: aside [21:40.11] scarabeus / reavertm: what issues do you want to fix by masking it? [21:40.15] with help of +kdeprefix [21:40.27] The pykde conflict and? [21:40.28] jmbsvicetto: update strategy, collisions, broken plugins, user confusion [21:40.39] jmbsvicetto: just decrease ^^^ impact on average users [21:41.08] ok, I've became tired of fighting this war [21:41.23] I'll let anyone else take this one if they want [21:41.39] i would more of like to convince you rather than tire you :] [21:41.44] But, just for the record, my +kdeprefix laptop is working fine :P [21:42.06] jmbsvicetto: yeah because me and reaver spent quite stuff on prefix stuff, and it is still not 100% [21:42.07] :] [21:42.16] scarabeus: As I've said before, the real solution is to fix upstream build system to allow co-existence of different versions side by side [21:42.18] fist stuff was to be time [21:42.23] jmbsvicetto: you're free to go with +kdeprefix if you fix qt plugin loader to not pick oxygen.so from current kde session (and plugin cache stored in .config/Trolltech.conf) instead of using kde4-config --qtplugins [21:42.25] yes on that i agree [21:42.41] jmbsvicetto: well we wont remove it [21:42.42] jmbsvicetto: that's no longer build system issue [21:42.44] just mask in profile [21:42.47] anyone can enable it [21:42.50] scarabeus: this way someone might feel "pressured" to start that work ;) [21:42.58] they can coexist [21:43.09] there's problem with plugin loader [21:43.14] jmbsvicetto: yeah it might motivate pple to work on it so it will get unmasked [21:43.14] reavertm: I mean having them on the same dir, not on separate prefixes [21:43.17] and of course with .desktop files [21:43.33] ok guys we are far away from the subject [21:43.35] (they all have relative paths in Exec=) [21:43.36] it is mask/not mask [21:43.46] * jmbsvicetto abstains [21:44.01] in current state kdeprefix is NO GO [21:44.21] one can not like it, but this is the fact [21:44.25] jmbsvicetto: you cant you are lead :D [21:44.31] ok please [21:44.34] !herd kde vote [21:44.39] !herd kde [21:44.40] bonsaikitten: what about you? [21:44.48] i hate that bot [21:44.50] seriously [21:44.51] scarabeus: Willikins doesn't have +v [21:44.53] scarabeus: give me a minute [21:44.55] rotfl [21:44.57] *** scarabeus sets mode: +v Willikins [21:44.57] *** jmbsvicetto sets mode: +v wired [21:44.57] I've spent already too many hours working on it - if anyone doesn't like it, I'll be happy to pass the work to him [21:44.59] !herd kde [21:44.59] (kde) alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, patrick, scarabeus, tampakrap, tgurr [21:45.04] O;] [21:45.13] scarabeus: Yeah, blame the bot ;) [21:45.15] jmbsvicetto: I prefer kdeprefix, but I don't care enough to fight for it [21:45.20] ok [21:45.26] i vote the mask [21:45.39] scarabeus: How do you plan to mask it? [21:45.40] i vote for mask this crap! [21:45.45] * wired votes on his dev bug [21:45.48] :D [21:45.50] jmbsvicetto: via use.mask [21:45.55] globaly in profile in use.mask [21:46.00] base/use.mask ? [21:46.02] I vote to mask it (for now) [21:46.03] yes [21:46.14] Can users unmask it in /etc/portage ? [21:46.18] yes [21:46.19] yes [21:46.21] as it should have been done at the same begin [21:46.24] iirc, last time one would have to do it in profiles/ [21:46.28] ok [21:46.34] so it would still be available for those who really want it [21:46.40] I can live with the mask then [21:46.56] jmbsvicetto: to unmask, put "-kdeprefix" in /etc/portage/profiles/use.mask [21:47.15] ABCD: ok, thanks [21:47.15] ok somebody around whom didnt vote? [21:47.22] ABCD: ssshh, users will hear it :P [21:47.24] * jmbsvicetto notices Patrick didn't [21:47.25] just make sure the whole thing is properly documented [21:47.46] well the guide will be updated, at least tampakrap_ promised he will do it [21:48.00] ABCD: it's profile, not profiles, IIRC [21:48.07] ...right [21:48.17] I blame my IRC client [21:48.17] bonsaikitten: so say mask/notmask plz [21:48.25] ;) [21:48.50] directory name is profiles, but calling it 'profile' is common :P [21:48.57] scarabeus: abstain [21:49.04] *** himikof_ (n=himikof@129.167.249.ozerki.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [21:49.04] :DDDD [21:49.06] reavertm: directory name is profie - I just checked [21:49.06] ok [21:49.14] profile* [21:49.18] *** himikof_ (n=himikof@129.167.249.ozerki.net) has joined #gentoo-kde [21:49.23] (ah, you mean the one in /etc/portage) [21:49.28] yes [21:49.34] it's profile [21:49.37] ok then it will be masked in profiles [21:49.38] nm, so results? [21:49.40] per vote [21:49.42] great :P [21:49.58] alexxy: please do the change and according documentation update in the guide [21:50.19] sweet [21:50.31] Now I can stable kde with a clear conscience [21:50.32] he he =) [21:50.41] there should be information. about being unable to load oxygen.so and the need of wiping ~/.config/Trolltech.conf [21:50.57] so tommorow i'll mask it via profile [21:51.03] alexxy: okey [21:51.05] and update guide [21:51.06] =) [21:51.10] so this topic is done :] [21:51.17] * alexxy realy tired and gonna sleep [21:51.24] next one because we ocupied 2 in the row is for qt herd [21:51.29] topic: Handle the PyQt3 qscintilla dependencies [21:51.31] (maybe remove all traces of kdeprefix from guide :) [21:51.33] alexxy: gn [21:51.44] yngwin: hwoarang ^ [21:51.49] what about it? [21:51.56] it is your topic [21:51.58] messy [21:51.59] no [21:51.59] gn =) [21:52.09] i guess the problem is sip and PyQt-3? [21:52.11] nn alexxy [21:52.16] nn alexxy [21:52.18] Pesa: no [21:52.27] pyqt3 requires qscintilla-python[-qt4] [21:52.30] so what is the problem? [21:52.36] whilst Pyqt4 requires qscintilla-python[qt4] [21:52.41] no it doesnt [21:52.47]