[21:02:16] <johu> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:KDE/Meeting/2012-09
[21:02:21] <johu> !herd kde
[21:02:22] <willikins> (kde) abcd, ago, alexxy, creffett, dilfridge, jmbsvicetto, johu, kensington, mschiff, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, tampakrap, thev00d00
[21:02:25] <johu> 1. roll call
[21:02:26] <creffett> present
[21:02:32] <ago> hello boys
[21:02:33] -*- johu here too
[21:03:56] --> scarabeus (~scarabeus@gentoo/developer/flyingspaghettimonster/scarabeus) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[21:04:03] <scarabeus> so what is turnabout today?
[21:04:20] <johu> 4 ppl as last time...
[21:04:24] <creffett> nice cloak.
[21:05:06] <johu> if i look to the herd member list there is something wrong
[21:05:17] <creffett> I even announced it this time
[21:05:22] <johu> iknow
[21:05:29] <scarabeus> well some cant attend, like jorge
[21:05:35] --> tampakrap (~tampakrap@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[21:05:38] <tampakrap> ahoj
[21:05:43] <scarabeus> nazdar
[21:05:58] <tampakrap> nadrazi
[21:06:16] <scarabeus> thats, railwaystation
[21:06:20] <tampakrap> I know
[21:06:23] <scarabeus> good
[21:06:35] <tampakrap> pristi zastavka, nadrazi liben
[21:06:45] <tampakrap> or pristi stanice
[21:06:54] <tampakrap> never managed to separate them
[21:07:12] --> B-Man (~aaron@108.171.119.130) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[21:07:13] <scarabeus> they are synonyms
[21:07:16] <scarabeus> so they are the same
[21:07:23] <scarabeus> but mhd says zastavka
[21:07:32] <tampakrap> the teacher told me that one is the subway station and the other is ground station (metro, bus)
[21:07:57] <scarabeus> tehcnically stanice could be a building and zastavka something small like the box with the sign
[21:07:59] <scarabeus> so yea
[21:08:26] <tampakrap> and what does the metro say btw?
[21:08:43] <scarabeus> fucking not sure
[21:08:43] --> Thev00d00 (~v00d00@gentoo/developer/TheV00d00) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[21:08:48] <Thev00d00> hello
[21:08:50] <scarabeus> i ignore it for few years already
[21:08:52] <scarabeus> hello Ian
[21:08:55] <Thev00d00> sorry I'm late
[21:09:00] <johu> Jsem černý řidič
[21:09:02] <tampakrap> anastum?
[21:09:13] <tampakrap> johu: nerozumim
[21:09:45] <tampakrap> a nastup, found it
[21:10:11] <scarabeus> johu: I am black driver? :D
[21:10:18] <johu> scarabeus: yes
[21:10:38] <johu> google translate
[21:10:44] <tampakrap> Ukončete prosím výstup a nástup, dveře se zavírají
[21:11:54] <scarabeus> i always wanted after this message see emergency hydraulic close as i seen on tank
[21:12:01] <scarabeus> woosh, click, scream, blood, ... :D
[21:12:23] <tampakrap> bullshit
[21:12:43] <-- B-Man (~aaron@108.171.119.130) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:13:07] <scarabeus> but it closes so slowly :-)
[21:13:30] --> mrueg (~mrueg@rueg.eu) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[21:13:41] <johu> drunken ppl approved
[21:15:00] <scarabeus> johu: i would say you wont get more people ;)
[21:15:15] <johu> !herd kde
[21:15:17] <willikins> (kde) abcd, ago, alexxy, creffett, dilfridge, jmbsvicetto, johu, kensington, mschiff, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, tampakrap, thev00d00
[21:15:20] <johu> 1. roll call
[21:15:58] <creffett> present
[21:16:04] <tampakrap> ahoj
[21:16:04] <johu> .
[21:16:07] <ago> here
[21:16:34] <Thev00d00> !
[21:16:38] <scarabeus> beep
[21:16:48] <mschiff> hi
[21:16:51] <johu> 2. Elect new herd lead
[21:17:30] <creffett> cue question of how many herd leads to have
[21:17:35] <johu> any nominees beside mee?
[21:18:01] <scarabeus> johu: you still want to find someone else to do it huh? :D
[21:18:27] <johu> scarabeus: sure!
[21:18:29] <scarabeus> johu: If you want not much active lead I can do it, but be sure I wont be proactive :D
[21:18:36] <creffett> not me.
[21:18:54] <johu> ok second nominee scarabeus
[21:19:04] <ago> scarabeus and johu  both lead would be awesome
[21:19:05] <Thev00d00> I vote johu
[21:19:16] <ago> how about have two leads?
[21:19:24] <tampakrap> how about 6?
[21:19:25] <Thev00d00> scarabeus is to old and grouchy
[21:19:29] <tampakrap> we'll have plenty of backups
[21:19:41] -*- johu votes for scarabeus
[21:19:55] <scarabeus> ago: you need only one for the outside comunication, with devrel, recruiters, etc
[21:20:30] <scarabeus> Thev00d00: the word is Grumpy :P
[21:21:23] -*- tampakrap votes for johu
[21:21:42] -*- tampakrap points out that scarabeus is saying *censored*, no leads are required actually
[21:21:55] <johu> tampakrap: do you re-joined?
[21:22:01] -*- creffett votes for johu
[21:22:04] <scarabeus> tampakrap: only LEAD can approve new members for recruitement
[21:22:14] <tampakrap> no idea, I was highlighted for the meeting :)
[21:22:18] <scarabeus> tampakrap: and that is the reason why we started with leads :D
[21:22:22] <tampakrap> plus I have nothing to do right now :)
[21:22:28] <johu> tampakrap: ok your vote will be counted
[21:22:30] <scarabeus> in 2k9 with jorge
[21:22:37] <scarabeus> we didnt have one for like 2 years before :P
[21:22:50] <tampakrap> I really have to disagree, even team members is vague
[21:22:56] <johu> scarabeus / ago please vote
[21:23:06] -*- scarabeus votes johu
[21:23:15] -*- ago votes johu 
[21:23:26] <scarabeus> johu: didn't help ya :P
[21:23:29] <tampakrap> for example, you've been doing heavy kde work (eg wrote the cmake eclass) way before joining as official developer
[21:23:31] <johu> i see
[21:23:41] -*- mschiff votes johu
[21:23:51] <tampakrap> how does your opinion in that state count less than any other (inactive?) member
[21:24:20] <johu> ok vote finished
[21:24:30] <johu> 3. KDE 4.9 stabilization (15 minutes)
[21:24:40] <johu> Possible blocker, please discuss and vote:
[21:24:45] <johu>  kde-base/konsole-4.9.0 - freezes on double-click (bug #430286)
[21:24:46] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/430286 ">=kde-base/konsole-4.9.0 freezes on double-click"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; UNCO; Martin.vGagern:kde
[21:24:51] <johu> - kde-base/nepomuk-core-4.9.1 - constantly segfaults after login into kde (bug #435112)
[21:24:52] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/435112 "kde-base/nepomuk-core-4.9.1 constantly segfaults after login into kde"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; UNCO; bu9zilla:kde
[21:24:56] <johu>  kde-base/kmail-4.9.1 - problems creating imap folder (bug #434156)
[21:24:58] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/434156 "kde-base/kmail-4.9.1: Problems creating imap folder"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; CONF; dilfridge:kde
[21:25:18] <tampakrap> so vote finished without celebration?
[21:25:22] <tampakrap> you must be kidding me
[21:25:34] <johu> my gf will celebrate me
[21:25:41] -*- tampakrap CONGRATULATES HIS MENTEE JOHU AND OPENS ANOTHER KOZEL!!!
[21:25:54] <mschiff> congrats johu ;)
[21:26:01] <johu> thanks
[21:26:25] <johu> tampakrap: kozel means what?
[21:26:27] <scarabeus> johu: we can give you a badge :P
[21:26:31] <scarabeus> johu: beer brand
[21:26:38] <scarabeus> johu: first two are blockers
[21:26:47] <scarabeus> johu: the kmail is not critical even tho annoying
[21:27:17] <johu> then i have 2 bad messages from upstream no progress on the 2 blockers for 492
[21:27:36] <ago> johu: good luck as lead =)
[21:27:51] <johu> ago: sure, i will need it
[21:28:21] <ago> johu: so, I'd say to wait 493
[21:28:50] <johu> ago: or wait for fix and backport to 492 if there is a solution in the meantime....
[21:29:05] <ago> not a bad idea..
[21:29:18] <scarabeus> well i would like 4.9 as it fixes few bugs i am experiencing
[21:29:25] <ago> in all cases we need upstream fix before decide and do anything
[21:29:41] <scarabeus> but not over everything, so the blockers could be backported but we should not proceed without them
[21:30:20] <johu> scarabeus: 100% ack
[21:30:56] <johu> ok, i will watch upstream and ping back if there is a fix
[21:31:07] <mschiff> a cannot reproduce 430286 here
[21:31:48] <johu> mschiff: me neither but its acked by arch users as well, happens from time to time
[21:32:10] <johu> * Status report of kde stable subproject (ago / creffett )
[21:32:39] <ago> well
[21:32:51] <ago> the page project is up and appears complete
[21:32:53] <ago> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde-stable/index.xml
[21:33:19] <ago> I asked via query feedback to johu creffett scarabeus tampakrap Thev00d00 and seems fine
[21:33:45] <tampakrap> I want to raise two objections here though
[21:33:48] <mschiff> And using current git kdepim (well two days old or three) and akonadi 9999 I cannot reproduce  434156
[21:34:04] <ago> I will fix it time to time If I will notice there is e.g. the same thing not clear for more than one people
[21:34:13] <tampakrap> 1) this subproject does NOT need a separate alias, it does NOT need an alias even, just use gentoo-desktop ml
[21:34:47] <creffett> tampakrap: what is the "cost" associated with making a new alias?
[21:35:01] <tampakrap> no cost, and I am not talking as infra now
[21:35:08] <tampakrap> I'm talking as a guy interested in that stuff
[21:35:09] <ago> tampakrap: this subproject can also ack on other kde-* stable request
[21:35:30] <tampakrap> so, my opinion is that all the moves of those guys should be 100% public, thus ml is the best option here
[21:35:57] <johu> (which is a principal of gentoo)
[21:35:58] <tampakrap> ago: sorry, I don't understand what you mean
[21:36:03] <tampakrap> or I don't see your point
[21:36:22] <ago> tampakrap: if we have people interested in this stuff, why they must follow gentoo-desktop?
[21:36:47] <ago> instead of read only the possible mail sent from bugzilla
[21:36:54] <tampakrap> you see it totally wrong
[21:36:57] <tampakrap> let me elaborate
[21:37:15] <tampakrap> there is a number of guys interested in testing/doing basic qa in kde
[21:37:26] <tampakrap> they can 1) follow the kde bugzilla account
[21:37:36] <tampakrap> 2) coordinate their efforts in #gentoo-kde channel
[21:37:50] <tampakrap> 3) communicate in gentoo-desktop mailing list
[21:37:58] <tampakrap> this way you have the following advantages:
[21:38:07] <tampakrap> 1) people follow the official gentoo-kde team work
[21:38:23] <tampakrap> 2) people use the same communication means as the gentoo-kde team does
[21:38:40] <ago> tampakrap: for first 1 you mean add them on kde@gentoo.org ?
[21:38:46] <tampakrap> 3) people don't have private communication media, so all of their work is public
[21:39:12] <tampakrap> having them to follow the official getnoo-kde work and media makes them closer to the team, thus closer to becoming full getnoo devs which is the goal
[21:39:35] <tampakrap> and NO I am not talking about adding them to kde alias, following the kde bugzilla account is different than adding them to the kde alias
[21:40:22] <tampakrap> that's all from me, flame on
[21:41:07] <scarabeus> ago: i updated the page as we talked about the english
[21:41:32] <ago> tampakrap: probably you know that the bureaucreacy in gentoo is not well at all. So the goal here is take advantage of the normal user that using kde and 1) don't like to become a dev 2)don't have the time or don't want follow the ML and IRC
[21:42:11] <tampakrap> I strongly disagree here, the procedure in becoming a gentoo developer is one of the best things we have imho
[21:42:26] <tampakrap> and I prefer it 100% to the one that for example upstream kde has
[21:42:55] <ago> me too, but there are a lot of people that disagree with you and me
[21:42:55] <tampakrap> and I still don't see your point, if they don't want to become full developers they won't, noone is pointing guns to heads
[21:43:31] <ago> let me explain the point
[21:44:02] <ago> if you want become a dev, usually you are interested to follow IRC, bugzilla, ML
[21:44:33] <ago> if you are not interested to do it and we say: you must follow them, the response from the user will be: do it by yourself
[21:45:28] <ago> and nobody will populate the subproject
[21:45:46] <johu> from kde parent herd i want to get feedback of the subproject, if you can handle that i am fine with the non-standard communication
[21:46:23] <tampakrap> I see it now, you are creating a project for people that are not interested in becoming gentoo developers
[21:46:34] <ago> tampakrap: yes
[21:46:38] <tampakrap> and with that project you don't want to motivate or change their mind
[21:46:52] <tampakrap> then sorry but I will have to go on the other side an not support your project
[21:47:12] <ago> who are interested to do it can start with arch tester or directly with dev
[21:47:15] <tampakrap> if people don't care about becoming gentoo developers (which in my little blue eyes means "no interest in the distro")
[21:47:21] <tampakrap> then I don't care about them either
[21:48:00] <tampakrap> sorry, still disagree with that move
[21:48:06] <ago> tampakrap: I'm thinks the same but you need to think at one point.
[21:48:44] <ago> If I can 'devolve' to gentoo 2h per day, I can think to become a dev
[21:49:12] <ago> If I have not time to do it, but I can help using everyday KDE unstable, I can contribute without lose time
[21:50:01] <tampakrap> sorry, don't agree
[21:50:19] <tampakrap> and I said why I don't agree, and I don't want to repeat myself
[21:50:55] <ago> this is fine, but does not mean we will not do it
[21:50:59] <tampakrap> so, good luck with that, I see your point of creating that project, but I am making it clear that I don't want to support it
[21:51:19] <tampakrap> no, that means that you are going forward normally, and I will shut up
[21:51:25] <johu> ok anything else, beside that?
[21:52:54] <ago> tampakrap: we have a lot of way to join gentoo and go to become dev, this is the only one that will not do it. We will see what will happen, and in case change the rules or what is needed
[21:53:00] <johu> lets see how this is working when we have the next stable candidate
[21:53:30] <johu> 4. EAPI 5 eclass support (15 minutes)
[21:53:41] <johu> Discuss the needed changes.
[21:55:13] <johu> scarabeus: you are council member and have a good overview about the eclasses and the new features
[21:58:21] <Thev00d00> sub slots and slot operator deps are new
[21:58:22] <scarabeus> johu: you guys dont need to change much
[21:58:58] <scarabeus> only the slot operators might be usefull and implemented
[21:59:20] <scarabeus> but basically enhancing the eapi case for 5 will break nothing
[21:59:50] <johu> ok i will enable it after 492 bump in overlay
[22:00:36] <Thev00d00> is it implemented in portage yet?
[22:00:42] <johu> is there an example of the slot operators?
[22:00:46] <johu> Thev00d00: yes
[22:01:32] <Thev00d00> I was looking at: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/pms.git;a=blobdiff;f=eapi-cheatsheet.tex
[22:01:40] <johu> alpha130 and the appropiate ~version
[22:02:49] <johu> 5 Bugs (10 minutes)
[22:02:58] <johu> dev-util/cmake-2.8.6-r4 - stop Xvfb after failed test phase (bug #406353)
[22:02:58] <johu> This occurs because VIRTUALX_COMMAND could be a bash function that dies, and virtualx.eclass does not use nonfatal.
[22:02:58] <johu> Discuss the patch - could there be any fallout?
[22:02:59] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/406353 "dev-util/cmake-2.8.6-r4 - stop Xvfb after failed test phase"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; UNCO; toralf.foerster:kde
[22:03:47] <johu> if you dont disaggree, i think this can be skipped was added by kensington and has already the ack from x11 herd and a user (Franz Fellner)
[22:06:00] <johu> silence = ack for the patch?
[22:06:39] <creffett> no opinion here, didn't look all that closely
[22:07:26] <Thev00d00> looks sensible to me
[22:08:51] <ago> same as creffett
[22:09:04] <johu> kde-base/kdebase-pam should use system-local-login instead system-auth in their pam.d files (bug #422495)
[22:09:04] <johu> User session is not created when using systemd
[22:09:04] <johu> Discuss and vote on proposed changes in duplicated bug (bug #433173)
[22:09:15] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/422495 "kde-base/kdebase-pam should use system-local-login instead system-auth in their pam.d files"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; UNCO; egorov_egor:kde
[22:09:17] <willikins> johu: https://bugs.gentoo.org/433173 "kde-base/kdebase-pam please enable systemd seat using system-local-login"; Gentoo Linux, KDE; RESO, DUPL; eulenreich:kde
[22:09:52] -*- Thev00d00 has no opinion on this one
[22:10:27] <mschiff> has anybody tested if there were any impacts when not using systemd?
[22:10:58] <johu> the question is is anybody using systemd and can do the positive test?
[22:14:02] <ago> mschiff: is not stable atm I'd say no
[22:16:19] <johu> hm]
[22:17:53] <johu> ok we will add this after 492 in overlay and ask for testing
[22:18:05] <johu> any objections?
[22:18:18] <-- creffett (~creffett@gentoo/developer/creffett) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:19:19] <Thev00d00> sounds sensible. I guess the guys on the bug can report the positive, we can check without sysd
[22:19:38] <scarabeus> go ahead
[22:19:39] <ago> johu: no
[22:19:44] <johu> ok
[22:20:01] <johu> last but not least
[22:20:02] <johu> Open floor (15 minutes)
[22:20:11] <johu> 6
[22:20:12] <ago> Thev00d00: we will found a way to test :=)
[22:21:34] <scarabeus> and i rush for bed i wake up early tmrw
[22:21:36] <scarabeus> so cya
[22:21:45] <johu> sweet dreams
[22:22:57] --> creffett (~creffett@gentoo/developer/creffett) hat #gentoo-meetings betreten
[22:23:12] <johu> i will do the summary (first time in wiki)
[22:23:29] <-- reavertm (~reavertm@gentoo/developer/reavertm) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:23:52] <johu> will need feedback because we have to port the old summaries to the wiki after that too
[22:24:48] <johu> anything else?
[22:24:55] <Thev00d00> can't we just link to them? seems like wasted effort toporrt
[22:25:01] <Thev00d00> to port
[22:25:23] <Thev00d00> but nope
[22:25:27] <johu> i dont want to have 2 places for that...
[22:25:58] <Thev00d00> you don't, you have a current and an archive :-)
[22:27:23] <johu> i will find a minio..eh volunteer for this work
[22:28:35] -*- creffett volunteers kensington
[22:28:51] <johu> last chance to raise your voice
[22:29:46] <johu> ok next meeting in 3 weeks, maybe with a new stable candidate...
[22:30:49] <johu> thanks all meeting is over