[19:37:12] halali [19:37:50] !herd kde [19:37:51] (kde) alexxy, creffett, dastergon, dilfridge, jcallen, jmbsvicetto, jmorgan, johu, kensington, mrueg, mschiff, patrick, reavertm, scarabeus, thev00d00 [19:37:56] 1) roll call [19:38:01] hi [19:38:02] yo [19:38:08] lo [19:38:43] more than one, so we have a quorum [19:38:51] mrueg? [19:39:06] well i am around but not much of an use :P [19:39:24] yep totally useless :P [19:39:58] do we agree on start? [19:41:07] probably nobody else will turn up at this point [19:41:29] hm [19:42:21] i am undecided [19:42:32] decidedly undecided? [19:43:01] 4 ppl out of >10 is not that good [19:43:03] available. [19:43:06] ok 5 [19:43:10] lets start [19:43:14] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:KDE/Meeting/2015-03 [19:43:18] agenda is here [19:43:34] 2) team lead election [19:43:58] nominations please [19:44:09] i nominate johu [19:44:14] -*- johu nominates dilfridge [19:44:16] I nominate kensington [19:44:20] no [19:44:31] I already have too many jobs [19:44:31] lets have johu keep his fun [19:44:33] :D [19:44:56] i accept, but keep the baby in mind which makes me sometime unavailable in the year [19:45:54] anybody else to nominate? [19:46:45] well looks like you won [19:46:49] ok nominees: kensingtion / johu [19:46:54] ah missed kensington ;P [19:47:02] please vote [19:47:11] i vote johu [19:47:19] kensington [19:47:32] -*- johu abstain [19:48:12] dilfridge /scarabeus? [19:48:21] johu: if ya want lets keep you the hat [19:48:49] -*- dilfridge abstains [19:49:05] so that's 2:1 for johu [19:49:15] so its 2 - 1 with 2 abstains [19:49:42] 3) Plasma 5 (30 minutes) [19:49:56] Please discuss the following aspects [19:49:56] Profile, Documentation (Normal, Upgrade guide) [19:49:56] Versioning scheme upstream breakage (e.g. baloo, kfilemetadata) [19:49:56] User settings migration [19:50:09] Please vote and discuss on tree inclusion target (5.2.x, 5.3.x) [19:50:09] News item [19:50:09] Masked vs Testin [19:50:34] -*- dilfridge is rather uninformed [19:51:01] it works fine, let's push it to ~arch [19:51:16] what's the problem with the version scheme breakage? [19:51:26] automagic deps inside eclass? [19:51:31] for me the versioning scheme breakage is a ~ blocker [19:51:45] why? [19:52:09] maybe upstream deiceds to lower the version to plasma general version back [19:52:33] i doubt it, it's released [19:52:57] yea they kinda fuck with the version a lot, at suse it is just set with list of pkgs and their expected versions, because they change it on the fly [19:52:58] It would be both insane and annoying [19:52:59] the problem those packages should be a framework [19:53:05] like sudden apperance of konsole etc [19:53:22] i guess they will be moved back to frameworks at some point [19:53:29] I already thought, that both packages would be moved inside frameworks because of this [19:54:07] karolherbst: those not in sync with the rest of frameworks release [19:54:39] i am fine with masked to tree but ~ is a no go until this is solved [19:54:46] but this is a minor problem, isn't it? They could be just released as 5.9 the next time if they decided to do it [19:55:18] johu: what problem does it actually cause us? [19:56:13] kensington: we should get an agreement on this with upstream to fix their release process [19:56:27] they didn't do it intentionally [19:56:29] if this happens now, this could happen in the future too [19:57:31] but what does this mean? Does anything changes at all or could it be just ignored? Where is the "more work" caused by this? [19:58:01] i don't see what it changes for us [19:59:24] obviously we would prefer consistent numbers but we can only work with what we're given [19:59:44] if you think the current releases are reliable then dont mind [20:00:31] i think it was even moved to frameworks namespace upstream after the changes, then the licensing issue was realised [20:00:51] yes but why raising the version number intentionally [20:01:22] didnt they want to adapt the version number to frameworks and only later realized that there is a license problem? [20:01:28] yes [20:01:57] i thought the reason was dev ego [20:02:11] and then keep it in the broken way [20:02:26] I also heard the license thing [20:02:28] afaik they didn't want to revert it since it was already released [20:02:47] dev ego, wait, are we talking about baloo? [20:02:57] yes vhanda [20:03:18] -*- dilfridge very narrowly avoided talking to him at fosdem [20:03:57] can we please ask upstream via ml first what they are planning for 5.3? [20:04:08] there's porting work away from xapian to avoid the license issue too [20:04:46] I want to know who came up with this dev ego thing :/ and how anybody could believe this [20:05:48] ok if nobody objects i will write to release team ml in the next days to clarify on plasma release process [20:06:52] kensington: there is lucene branch already with some commits [20:06:58] yeah [20:07:16] kensington: whats the state of the new plasma profile? [20:07:32] worksforme [20:08:08] it sets all the minimal use flags and then some [20:08:09] general wiki article/upgrade guide/user settings? [20:08:33] upgrade guide has seen some small user revisions but nothing major yet [20:09:11] for any user with meta packages the upgrade should be pretty smooth [20:10:01] * dilfridge has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Gentoo Meetings | KDE team meeting" [20:10:02] "User settings migration" can anything be done here anyway? [20:10:14] i want to add a little more text about unresolvable blockers (eg. user has some plasmoid dependong on plasma:4 in world file) [20:10:16] does anybody tried to move all old config files into new locations? [20:10:26] config migration should happen automagically [20:10:37] frameworks provides at least config migration but i dont know if they use it in plasma [20:10:59] a lot of it won't translate cleanly anyway [20:11:38] there was a blog post partly about kwallet migration, citing you needed kwallet:4 and :5 at the same time [20:11:46] do we need a plasma-meta package? [20:11:59] will user bother much if they have to configure their desktop again? [20:12:19] genstorm: are you sure? [20:12:20] somebody can try to copy the config to see if it works and document it, not much we can do beyond it [20:12:30] plasma-meta++ [20:12:51] I would suggest plasma-meta and plasma-minimal-meta [20:13:00] plasma-minimal-meta = plasma-desktop [20:13:08] I see [20:13:35] it pulls in the desktop/workspace and not much else [20:13:36] we could provide a login-manager use flag like in :4 [20:14:10] mhh [20:14:10] yeah [20:14:16] I think it may be too messy currently [20:14:18] karolherbst: not sure if this is still the case. http://lamarque-lvs.blogspot.co.at/2014/11/installing-plasma-5-on-gentoo-linux.html [20:14:19] sddm is messy [20:14:27] and lightdm[kde] doesn't work reliable [20:14:35] sddm works for me [20:14:43] not if you have consolekit [20:14:50] no sleep, no other stuff [20:14:55] its messy [20:14:55] legacy :P [20:14:58] maybe move the bluerooth/networkmanager flag from plasmsa-desktop to plasma-meta [20:15:12] yeah [20:15:14] ++ [20:15:15] consolekit and no sleep isn't sddm-specific [20:15:32] mhhh [20:15:48] same with lightdm, with openrc I need to change startkde script to get shutdown functions [20:15:54] kensington: do we have a general plasma guide? [20:15:55] I only know that I had big issues with sddm, and lightdm[gtk] seems t work fine for me. I had issues at the beggining though with lightdm [20:16:01] i keep meaning to follow up on larmarque's findings [20:16:14] so what blocks upgrade? i.e., are there kde4 applications that a) cannot be installed at the same time with plasma5, and b) have no replacement yet? [20:16:34] johu: i think there's some basic info on [[KDE]] but never got finished due to bikeshedding [20:16:45] genstorm: what did you need exactly to change? [20:17:00] anything that depends on plasma:4 will block upgrade since it's not coinstallable [20:17:13] i would create [[Plasma]] and include it in the [[KDE]] article [20:17:13] dilfridge: many missing plasmoids [20:17:15] kde USE flag is also an issue [20:17:26] I dont care so much about plasmoids [20:17:33] dilfridge: users do [20:17:33] mrueg: remove kwrapper5 from ksmserver call [20:17:38] :/ [20:17:58] mrueg: normally you have sagrotan for that [20:18:00] if they want full range of plasmoids they shouldn't upgrade yet [20:18:24] also taken from lamarque [20:18:27] i wrote in the upgrade guide that it's not a full feature replacement yet [20:19:50] can we summarize the "before move to tree" todos: versioning scheme clarification, plasma general guide, meta package -> news item [20:19:55] i suggest we wait to johu to clarify his release concerns, add the meta package, polish docs a little, then add plasma to ~arch [20:20:03] yeah [20:20:04] anithing else we have todo? [20:20:36] i think that's it [20:20:47] there might be some packages with kde USE flags which pulls in KDE4 packages, which are also available in kf5 or plasma5 (kde apps 5) [20:21:23] ok then we need to agree on a process for tree introduction [20:21:25] i'll check revdeps, probably most is kde-apps [20:21:32] q4wine uses kdesu for example and winetricks kdialog [20:22:00] kensington: q4wine[kde] => kdesu (frameworks) [20:22:25] johu: add to the todo list https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo-portage-rsync-mirror/pull/65 [20:22:29] i dont want to have it ~ directly, my proposal would be masked to the tree (announced in news item), 90 days masked phase and then ~ [20:23:12] there's no chance of accidental upgrade [20:23:19] dont get me wrong i dont want to have the gnome endless masking phase, but i dont want to repeat the kde3 -> kde 4 drama [20:24:34] other proposals for the process? [20:24:56] unmask and keep it in overlay [20:25:35] i guess we have more users with tree only [20:26:39] more testing will be done with tree inclusion [20:28:20] and per package commits [20:28:43] is there any point discussing apps now then? [20:29:07] its seperated from the desktop env [20:29:24] so i want to vote first on the process we and then the target [20:29:37] and then we can move to applications [20:30:53] i'll read the backlog tomorrow, good luck [20:30:54] -*- kensington out [20:31:05] hm [20:31:14] i need to leave now, too. [20:31:39] -*- mrueg wanted to get back home earlier today.. [20:31:49] hm fine [20:32:22] dilfridge: how it was done with kde4? [20:32:35] scarabeus: ^ [20:36:17] hmm? [20:36:31] kde3 -> kde4 was before my time [20:36:57] realy? [20:37:05] in gentoo yes [20:37:15] biab [20:38:01] so mrueg and kensington left i guess we need to continue tomorrow?! [20:38:18] scarabeus doesnt react [20:38:38] i dont want to decide it with 2 devs present [20:42:09] meeting postponed ,continue with 3) [20:47:29] sorry urgent call of nature [00:00:00] - {Tageswechsel: Donnerstag, 12. März 2015} [02:54:05] <-> josef64_ heißt jetzt josef64 [07:43:25] <-> dlan_ heißt jetzt dlan [08:39:30] johu: sorry i went to take care of my parrots as it was getting late [08:39:51] johu: the kde3->4 drama wont happen [08:40:07] with kde4 migration issue was not packaging but rather quality of kde4 at the time :)